angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 16, 2024 15:47:12 GMT
A government ... that will take a country into war based on a total pack of lies is to be treated with extreme suspicion in my opinion. It's not the same government. It's 21 years and six prime ministers ago. It was that particular PM's biggest failing, amongst a decade of broadly beneficial and competent governance. The last decade or so, otoh, has seen mass incompetence and lies on a scale that makes Iraq look minor, yet people still gloss over all of THAT and point so far back.
If you believe the government has become more trust worthy since the WMD lie then you are (as I have already said) living in a different universe to me.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 16, 2024 15:52:46 GMT
you are (as I have already said) living in a different universe to me.
I thought there was only one universe (you know the one created 13.8bn years ago with a big bang)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 16, 2024 16:01:25 GMT
It's not the same government. It's 21 years and six prime ministers ago. It was that particular PM's biggest failing, amongst a decade of broadly beneficial and competent governance. The last decade or so, otoh, has seen mass incompetence and lies on a scale that makes Iraq look minor, yet people still gloss over all of THAT and point so far back. If you believe the government has become more trust worthy since the WMD lie then you are (as I have already said) living in a different universe to me.
Thank you for so eloquently confirming my opinion of your comprehension skills.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 16, 2024 16:38:59 GMT
If you believe the government has become more trust worthy since the WMD lie then you are (as I have already said) living in a different universe to me.
Thank you for so eloquently confirming my opinion of your comprehension skills.
I was agreeing with your statement. This government is one of least principled in the history of the country. Boris Johnson's involvement in the destruction of Ukraine is beyond appalling.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Apr 16, 2024 16:58:18 GMT
you are (as I have already said) living in a different universe to me.
I thought there was only one universe (you know the one created 13.8bn years ago with a big bang) I think not current thinking, I recently watched a documentary by a Dr Strange explaining that there is indeed a Multiverse.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Apr 16, 2024 17:01:44 GMT
I'm trying to watch less news. Call it burying my head in the sand but itsall a bit too much.
I've no control over any of it and what will be will be so trying to get on with life.
We have a house to do up and sell, identify a new area/country to live and find a home. Plenty to get on with without worrying myself with building a bunker, stashing food and painting a door white to hide under.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 16, 2024 17:09:27 GMT
I thought there was only one universe (you know the one created 13.8bn years ago with a big bang) I think not current thinking, I recently watched a documentary by a Dr Strange explaining that there is indeed a Multiverse. Is that the one where he is everything, everywhere, all at once? Madness, madness, I tell you.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Apr 16, 2024 18:06:20 GMT
A government and mainstream media that will take a country into war based on a total pack of lies is to be treated with extreme suspicion in my opinion. I do not assume everything the government or main stream media in this country tells me is false, but I do not assume it is true either. Thankfully telling lies on a large scale is very difficult to do (if not impossible) and it is often easy to see through the deceptions with common sense due to the obvious inconsistencies in what they say. The only reason they seem to get away with it is because most of the population does not question the people in authority and blindly accept whatever they are told *. * - the way anyone who questions the official narrative is immediately labelled a conspiracy nut or an agent of a foreign power is a convenient way for the ruling elite to dismiss people questioning the manipulation and lies they are involved in. Yes, I've been accused on two separate occasions as being exactly that without any hint of irony or jest. I do think people question more than you give credit for but those on this forum are more likely to trust the mainstream sources due to age.I don't think age is a key factor in conforming to groupthink, but if it were, I'd have expected the opposite might be true...don't people become more curious and cynical the older they become? Edit: not suggesting my fellow forumites are decrepit or sheeple, to be clear
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 16, 2024 18:26:59 GMT
Yes, I've been accused on two separate occasions as being exactly that without any hint of irony or jest. I do think people question more than you give credit for but those on this forum are more likely to trust the mainstream sources due to age.I don't think age is a key factor in conforming to groupthink, but if it were, I'd have expected the opposite might be true...don't people become more curious and cynical the older they become? Edit: not suggesting my fellow forumites are decrepit or sheeple, to be clear Perhaps but most people of my age (the somewhat older generation) grew up watching BBC or ITV news and then channel4 news plus one of a handful of newspapers owned by an even smaller handful of owners. There was no easy way to check any story as there was no internet making research much harder. Thus anecdotally speaking, I think the older generations including mine are more likely to get their news from the sources they always have. Its a similar story in Russia by the way which is how its so easy for Putin to keep his population (again particularly the older generation) nicely under control.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 16, 2024 18:28:39 GMT
I'm trying to watch less news. Call it burying my head in the sand but itsall a bit too much. I've no control over any of it and what will be will be so trying to get on with life. We have a house to do up and sell, identify a new area/country to live and find a home. Plenty to get on with without worrying myself with building a bunker, stashing food and painting a door white to hide under. That's fair enough until and unless it starts to affect you directly.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 16, 2024 18:33:59 GMT
I'd say that the older demographics (also the less educated and the lower socio-economic demographics) are more likely to be unquestioning about whatever ticks their preconceptions, regardless of how the evidence and facts actually stack up. Telegraph, Mail, GBNews, etc. They retreat in silos, not engaging with anything or anybody outside their comfort zone.
Sure - at the other end of the spectrum, you've also got the young, naive, and gullible. The Tiktok generation. The big difference is - they'll grow out of it as they get more experience of the real world.
They're the groups that the charismatic populists appeal to, at both ends of the political spectrum.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 16, 2024 18:38:45 GMT
I'm trying to watch less news. Call it burying my head in the sand but itsall a bit too much. I've no control over any of it and what will be will be so trying to get on with life. We have a house to do up and sell, identify a new area/country to live and find a home. Plenty to get on with without worrying myself with building a bunker, stashing food and painting a door white to hide under. That's fair enough until and unless it starts to affect you directly. It won't. Not in the UK, not to the reasonably comfily-off. The worst that'll happen is a cost-of-living squeeze, and first-world-problems like NHS queues and relatively minor increases in crime statistics - all of which we've already had, thanks to the incompetence of our own governments over the last decade or two. We won't get the ongoing woes of the wider world - the Middle East or Russian expansionism - knocking physically on our door. Climate change is going to make the weather in this country more seasonal, but still habitable. The biggest direct "risk" is of those who aren't so lucky wanting to come and share in our good fortune. And, yes, the odd one or two may want to point a finger in various ways at our own complicity. Can you really blame them? Perhaps if we were better neighbours...
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 16, 2024 19:05:30 GMT
Its the times that have changed, not the people. There were always Dunning-Kruger idiots who had done their own research, difference now being they can find each other on the internet. Back in the 1990s there was no imminent collapse into authoritarianism in the large democracies like India, USA, and no obvious signs of exponential climate change. The Iraq war was the beginning of the slide when you could see Western leaders acting on what you knew that they knew were lies. Then it stabilised a bit until 2016. Now, I'm quite with mogish that its all getting a bit much. When the slaughter began to go on and on in Gaza, for the first time in my life I began to opt out of the news. Nothing is going right and it will get worse, if only due to the politics of climate change. I've written another paragraph but ill paste it into the climate change thread. |
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 16, 2024 19:22:10 GMT
No, it fits in here too. What I wrote was..
My neighbour's child's secondary school class is going on a school trip next month. They are flying to Morocco. I was thinking about this. If I was a Morroccan. You'd see the parties of rich tourists flying in, and plane loads of school children doing something you could never have afforded for your kids, flying in and going, oh climate change, isn't it awful. Your country's a bit hot! Lovely to see you, doubt you'll be very comfortable here in ten years time, won't be coming back and don't you try coming over to our country. Then flying off again.
Try thinking of it the other way around, if Britain was the poor hot country and it was Moroccan tourists who flew in and out of Heathrow coming to look at you and your hut. Look at their quaint clothes. Will they do a dance for us? Just musing.
Western countries are split down the middle with (under) half genuinely worried about the climate and prepared to try to do something, and probably a majority who do not want their lifestyle altered in any way and damn the future. Unfortunately the dead weight of people who don't care is populism, is my country first anti-globalism, is human beings being unable to co-operate to avert catastrophe. Or see them elect Trump and we actually go backwards. That is the moment I move to New Zealand and throw my mobile phone in the sea.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 16, 2024 19:40:06 GMT
A government and mainstream media that will take a country into war based on a total pack of lies is to be treated with extreme suspicion in my opinion. I do not assume everything the government or main stream media in this country tells me is false, but I do not assume it is true either. Thankfully telling lies on a large scale is very difficult to do (if not impossible) and it is often easy to see through the deceptions with common sense due to the obvious inconsistencies in what they say. The only reason they seem to get away with it is because most of the population does not question the people in authority and blindly accept whatever they are told *. * - the way anyone who questions the official narrative is immediately labelled a conspiracy nut or an agent of a foreign power is a convenient way for the ruling elite to dismiss people questioning the manipulation and lies they are involved in. Yes, I've been accused on two separate occasions as being exactly that without any hint of irony or jest. I do think people question more than you give credit for but those on this forum are more likely to trust the mainstream sources due to age. Age of what the forum? Or is this an ageist comment? I find young people really naive and seem to believe everything they read on the internet (a youthish comment?). Older people are much less trusting they've heard it all before, lies, promises, excuses (and even conspiracy theories). And I remember being young and we didn't trust/believe half of what we heard then, and would put the world to rights with friends over a few beers, nothing new.
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