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Trump
Nov 18, 2024 10:10:50 GMT
Post by bracknellboy on Nov 18, 2024 10:10:50 GMT
Just for the record, I'm no eco warrrior and certainly not a Green. Their opposition to nuclear power has done great damage, especially in Germany. 1970s-style "Nuclear Power? No Thanks!" green attitudes in Germany certainly did a lot to prevent the growth of nuclear power back in the day, but the more recent argument is simply that carbon-neutral renewables were cheaper than continuing to invest in the few ageing plants they had - and Fukushima was the final straw.www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65260673And that was before situations like the Russians threatening Zaporizhzhia. So, while I don't agree with the German attitude to nuclear power, I can certainly understand it. You're right about the harm that sticking with coal instead of nuclear's done, though. German electricity generation is sitting at 307g CO2/kWh right now - around 50% higher than the UK average last year - but that includes 63% renewable - about twice the UK average. www.nowtricity.com/country/germany/Coal just over 20% of their generation right now, while the last UK coal plant was taken out of operation last month. Bolded bit: I just don't think that logic is correct. Or not what happened in practise. They did not backfill nuclear with carbon-neutral renewables. They back filled mostly with coal and I suspect gas. Which was a point I was going to make to ASs original post (where he was strongly suggesting that Green policies in Germany had destroyed it economically. A rather hard case to argue when they had such a high FF dependency).
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travolta
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Trump
Nov 18, 2024 10:11:16 GMT
Post by travolta on Nov 18, 2024 10:11:16 GMT
I love casual misogeny.
There's enough hot air on this site to keep us all warm for years.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Trump
Nov 18, 2024 10:43:25 GMT
Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 18, 2024 10:43:25 GMT
What alot of garbage. Keep praying at the Church of the Eco Hypocrite with Caroline Lucas, Annalena Bareback and the Chick who lives next door. Abuse and casual misogyny. Well done.
Just for the record, I'm no eco warrrior and certainly not a Green. Their opposition to nuclear power has done great damage, especially in Germany. I'm just an ordinary guy who understands the science.Whatever Dude....
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pikestaff
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Trump
Nov 18, 2024 10:47:09 GMT
Post by pikestaff on Nov 18, 2024 10:47:09 GMT
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adrianc
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Trump
Nov 18, 2024 10:54:35 GMT
Post by adrianc on Nov 18, 2024 10:54:35 GMT
1970s-style "Nuclear Power? No Thanks!" green attitudes in Germany certainly did a lot to prevent the growth of nuclear power back in the day, but the more recent argument is simply that carbon-neutral renewables were cheaper than continuing to invest in the few ageing plants they had - and Fukushima was the final straw.www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65260673And that was before situations like the Russians threatening Zaporizhzhia. So, while I don't agree with the German attitude to nuclear power, I can certainly understand it. You're right about the harm that sticking with coal instead of nuclear's done, though. German electricity generation is sitting at 307g CO2/kWh right now - around 50% higher than the UK average last year - but that includes 63% renewable - about twice the UK average. www.nowtricity.com/country/germany/Coal just over 20% of their generation right now, while the last UK coal plant was taken out of operation last month. Bolded bit: I just don't think that logic is correct. Or not what happened in practise. They did not backfill nuclear with carbon-neutral renewables. They back filled mostly with coal and I suspect gas. Which was a point I was going to make to ASs original post (where he was strongly suggesting that Green policies in Germany had destroyed it economically. A rather hard case to argue when they had such a high FF dependency). German nuclear electricity peaked at 25% in the 90s, with the phase-out announced in 2011 in the immediate aftermath of Fukushima - renewables had already passed nuclear at that point. Eight plants were shut down in 2011, three more in the late teens - it was down to 13% by 2021, when three of the last six plants were fully decommissioned. The remainder were closed last year. They hadn't brought a single reactor online since the 1980s. www.dw.com/en/merkel-shuts-down-seven-nuclear-reactors/a-14912184en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#ReactorsFossil generation's been falling since the mid teens, with a peak of around 60% of generation in the mid 00s.   Coal had peaked around reunification - and most of that fossil was actually oil. 
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Trump
Nov 18, 2024 12:13:14 GMT
Post by bernythedolt on Nov 18, 2024 12:13:14 GMT
Are you suggesting there is no political alignment when it comes to CC ? It's surely really quite hard to look at the last few years' worth of global natural disasters and deny the place of climate change in their making... isn't it? Perspective matters though. I accept the climate change science, but can a natural disaster ever have an anthropogenic cause? (If so, should we still call them natural?) I'm thinking volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, fires, hurricanes, asteroids and tsunamis here. Natural events that have always occurred. Rather than a place " in their making", climate change is reckoned to have increased the severity in some cases (which is no doubt what you mean here). I'd suggest climate change is only a tiny driver there and is dwarfed by other factors, such as vastly improved personal communications and increased mobility with easier transport links. Now the third world are beginning to see for themselves how the other half lives, naturally they want some of that life on easy street for themselves.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Nov 18, 2024 19:43:37 GMT
Trump still upsetting people I see, I find the hysterical meltdowns on X, Facebook etc highly entertaining, especially the shaving of heads and threats to withhold sex. Not called The Loony Left for nothing?  To be fair, I imagine the Trumpster's more "ardent" followers could probably match the erratic behaviour if they had lost.  I do have a feeling though that Trump is going to surprise people, he's a businessman after all and not the idiot he's painted.. Guess we shall see.  |
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adrianc
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Trump
Nov 19, 2024 8:58:35 GMT
Post by adrianc on Nov 19, 2024 8:58:35 GMT
It's surely really quite hard to look at the last few years' worth of global natural disasters and deny the place of climate change in their making... isn't it? Perspective matters though. I accept the climate change science, but can a natural disaster ever have an anthropogenic cause? Yes. Natural disasters exacerbated by changing climate - we're seeing them with the wildfires, the floods, etc etc. s (which is no doubt what you mean here). And we're selfishly keeping it for ourselves. Yes, there's an element of that - of course there is. Increased global equity would certainly help. As, of course, would fewer wars... But climate change is also a big factor fuelling the moves. www.unhcr.org/news/press-releases/unhcr-report-reveals-climate-change-growing-threat-people-already-fleeing-war"by 2040 the number of countries facing extreme climate-related hazards is expected to rise from 3 to 65, the vast majority of which host displaced people. Similarly, most refugee settlements and camps are projected to experience twice as many days of dangerous heat by 2050.""For example, the devastating conflict in Sudan has forced millions of people to flee, including 700,000 who have crossed into Chad, which has hosted refugees for decades and yet is one of the countries most exposed to climate change. At the same time, many who fled the fighting but remained in Sudan are at risk of further displacement because of severe flooding that has blighted the country.
Similarly, 72 per cent of Myanmar’s refugees have sought safety in Bangladesh, where natural hazards such as cyclones and flooding, are classified as extreme.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 19, 2024 8:59:33 GMT
I do have a feeling though that Trump is going to surprise people, he's a businessman after all and not the idiot he's painted.. Not a terribly good one, given the past litter of bankruptcies. And, for somebody who isn't an idiot, he seems to be doing a good job of surrounding himself with sycophantic idiots.
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 19, 2024 11:54:39 GMT
Perspective matters though. I accept the climate change science, but can a natural disaster ever have an anthropogenic cause? Yes. Natural disasters exacerbated by changing climate - we're seeing them with the wildfires, the floods, etc etc. s (which is no doubt what you mean here). And we're selfishly keeping it for ourselves. Yes, there's an element of that - of course there is. Increased global equity would certainly help. As, of course, would fewer wars... But climate change is also a big factor fuelling the moves. www.unhcr.org/news/press-releases/unhcr-report-reveals-climate-change-growing-threat-people-already-fleeing-war"by 2040 the number of countries facing extreme climate-related hazards is expected to rise from 3 to 65, the vast majority of which host displaced people. Similarly, most refugee settlements and camps are projected to experience twice as many days of dangerous heat by 2050.""For example, the devastating conflict in Sudan has forced millions of people to flee, including 700,000 who have crossed into Chad, which has hosted refugees for decades and yet is one of the countries most exposed to climate change. At the same time, many who fled the fighting but remained in Sudan are at risk of further displacement because of severe flooding that has blighted the country.
Similarly, 72 per cent of Myanmar’s refugees have sought safety in Bangladesh, where natural hazards such as cyclones and flooding, are classified as extreme.By far the biggest factor driving migration in these examples is war and internal conflict then, not climate change. Cyclones and severe flooding have always blighted some part of the world or other. You say climate change is a big factor driving migration in these examples. I say this is an example of climate change alarmism: conflict is far and away the main driver here, with 'natural hazards' - as the piece calls them - a subsidiary.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 19, 2024 12:42:45 GMT
You don't think climate change (eg increased desertification, pressure on water supplies, tensions between nomadic herders and farmers etc) can increase internal pressures that subsequently lead to conflict, which in turn increases migratory pressures?
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travolta
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Trump
Nov 19, 2024 12:50:15 GMT
Post by travolta on Nov 19, 2024 12:50:15 GMT
Instants comms means that every incident fuels your theories.
Stick to personal experience imo.
It does mean that you are informed by ignorance,
but thats OK unless you expect others to listen to you.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 19, 2024 13:26:58 GMT
Yes. Natural disasters exacerbated by changing climate - we're seeing them with the wildfires, the floods, etc etc. s (which is no doubt what you mean here). And we're selfishly keeping it for ourselves. Yes, there's an element of that - of course there is. Increased global equity would certainly help. As, of course, would fewer wars... But climate change is also a big factor fuelling the moves. www.unhcr.org/news/press-releases/unhcr-report-reveals-climate-change-growing-threat-people-already-fleeing-war"by 2040 the number of countries facing extreme climate-related hazards is expected to rise from 3 to 65, the vast majority of which host displaced people. Similarly, most refugee settlements and camps are projected to experience twice as many days of dangerous heat by 2050.""For example, the devastating conflict in Sudan has forced millions of people to flee, including 700,000 who have crossed into Chad, which has hosted refugees for decades and yet is one of the countries most exposed to climate change. At the same time, many who fled the fighting but remained in Sudan are at risk of further displacement because of severe flooding that has blighted the country.
Similarly, 72 per cent of Myanmar’s refugees have sought safety in Bangladesh, where natural hazards such as cyclones and flooding, are classified as extreme.By far the biggest factor driving migration in these examples is war and internal conflict then, not climate change. Cyclones and severe flooding have always blighted some part of the world or other. You say climate change is a big factor driving migration in these examples. I say this is an example of climate change alarmism: conflict is far and away the main driver here, with 'natural hazards' - as the piece calls them - a subsidiary. I think that adrianc 's comment that climate change is having a significant impact on migration at present is incorrect. However, I think it is inevitable that climate change will in the future be a significant driver to migration. That will be both directly - e.g. impact on food production in badly affected areas and impoverished communities, loss of habitable area in low lowing countries - and indirectly e.g. conflict that has its roots in climate change induced pressures. But today, I'd think its influence is near trivial. For the future, it is a racing certainty assuming you believe that the outcomes of CC are in the same ballpark of expectations. That isn't alarmism, its an entirely logical and inevitable result of predicted events.
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ozboy
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Trump
Nov 19, 2024 21:02:01 GMT
Post by ozboy on Nov 19, 2024 21:02:01 GMT
I do have a feeling though that Trump is going to surprise people, he's a businessman after all and not the idiot he's painted.. Not a terribly good one, given the past litter of bankruptcies. And, for somebody who isn't an idiot, he seems to be doing a good job of surrounding himself with sycophantic idiots. So you'd have voted for Harris?
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adrianc
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Trump
Nov 19, 2024 22:59:55 GMT
Post by adrianc on Nov 19, 2024 22:59:55 GMT
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