jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Nov 30, 2024 9:54:29 GMT
However Russia is not an Imperialist force the US is Well that's the funniest thing I'm likely to read today. Don't be so sure. There's likely to be more hilarious guff on the way.  I honestly can't fathom why any of you bother to engage with this fruitloop.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 30, 2024 10:50:29 GMT
Well that's the funniest thing I'm likely to read today. Don't be so sure. There's likely to be more hilarious guff on the way. I honestly can't fathom why any of you bother to engage with this fruitloop. I have a different perspective on the best way forward in this conflict than the mainstream, it is not that I am Pro-Russian as some people seem to want to think. I was also told I was a Pro-Russian fruitloop when I said Ukraine cannot win in a war against Russia. which is now self evident. My opinions on the way to resolve this situation are based on the fact that 1) Ukraine/NATO cannot win in a conventional war against Russia on its doorstep 2) I do not want to see the end of the human civilization in a nuclear war and 3) I do not want to see any more Ukrainians killed in a war they cannot win and can avoid in my opinion. The only solution is therefore a diplomatic one which involves seeing things from Russia's perspective to a certain extent and not just saying "NATO = Good" and "Putin = Hitler" - ie trying to find a compromise in which all sides are better off than the current war.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 30, 2024 14:03:16 GMT
Well that's the funniest thing I'm likely to read today. Don't be so sure. There's likely to be more hilarious guff on the way. I honestly can't fathom why any of you bother to engage with this fruitloop. Which in my eyes means you guys have lost the argument resulting to insults etc.... Perhaps more importantly he has been right on quite a few things. Most of important is very sadly indeed Ukraine could not hold on to all its territory given the current circumstances. The sooner this was realised the better as it saves human life.
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Post by bernythedolt on Nov 30, 2024 14:05:44 GMT
You've just posted a clip above in which Putin does exactly that. He literally takes the moral high ground, telling us how Russians have more scruples than the US and would never take out women and children when their gangsters settle a score. RIP Dawn Sturgess (Salisbury novichok) and Kristina Raspopova, the innocent female flight attendant on Yevgeny Prigozhin's aeroplane. He was talking about personal attacks on Trumps family during the election campaign. I would not be at all surprised if Putin does not consider Russia to be morally superior to the US. However Russia is not an Imperialist force the US is, and with its morally totalitarian "Rules Based Order" - which is what I was talking about. Listen again. He then went on to say how [unlike the US] Russian gangsters wouldn't stoop to take out women and children, only other men. Yeah, right. You and he have obviously blocked out all memory of the vile use of a nerve agent on UK soil in 2018, during the attempted murder of the innocent woman Yulia Skripal. Her only "offence" being apparently that of a daughter who'd travelled here to visit her father. Those Russian assassins were quite happy to take her life alongside her father's. So much for those superior Russian morals you talk of. As for the absurd notion that Russia isn't an imperialist force - in the last 20 years alone they've effectively annexed Georgia, Crimea, Belarus and (looking likely) part of Ukraine. Your definition of imperialism must be different to the mainstream. Anyway, I'll just leave this here:- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_imperialism
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 30, 2024 14:23:15 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 30, 2024 15:25:57 GMT
Don't be so sure. There's likely to be more hilarious guff on the way. I honestly can't fathom why any of you bother to engage with this fruitloop. I have a different perspective on the best way forward in this conflict than the mainstream, it is not that I am Pro-Russian as some people seem to want to think. I was also told I was a Pro-Russian fruitloop when I said Ukraine cannot win in a war against Russia. which is now self evident. My opinions on the way to resolve this situation are based on the fact that 1) Ukraine/NATO cannot win in a conventional war against Russia on its doorstep 2) I do not want to see the end of the human civilization in a nuclear war and 3) I do not want to see any more Ukrainians killed in a war they cannot win and can avoid in my opinion. The only solution is therefore a diplomatic one which involves seeing things from Russia's perspective to a certain extent and not just saying "NATO = Good" and "Putin = Hitler" - ie trying to find a compromise in which all sides are better off than the current war. Surely at the start everyone said Ukraine couldn't stand up against Russia, I assumed it would be over in a couple of weeks, particularly seeing convoys of tanks rolling towards Kyiv in the first few days, it's Ukraine that has proved us all wrong by holding out for so long. Although the ultimate outcome was inevitably still going to be some sort of Russian victory in the long term unless Putin decided the attrition was too great and decided to retreat (having achieved his objectives obviously (to save face)) or public opinion in Russia against the war became untenable. I do think Russia would like out as much as Ukraine and Trump may be the person to allow Putin to get out, although I think the peace may be pretty bad for the people of Ukraine who have dared to defy Putin. How much land will he want? And presumably he would demand a change in government. Will Ukraine be willing to accept the terms Putin will offer, having fought so bravely for so long to defend their country?
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michaelc
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Trump
Nov 30, 2024 15:51:37 GMT
Post by michaelc on Nov 30, 2024 15:51:37 GMT
I have a different perspective on the best way forward in this conflict than the mainstream, it is not that I am Pro-Russian as some people seem to want to think. I was also told I was a Pro-Russian fruitloop when I said Ukraine cannot win in a war against Russia. which is now self evident. My opinions on the way to resolve this situation are based on the fact that 1) Ukraine/NATO cannot win in a conventional war against Russia on its doorstep 2) I do not want to see the end of the human civilization in a nuclear war and 3) I do not want to see any more Ukrainians killed in a war they cannot win and can avoid in my opinion. The only solution is therefore a diplomatic one which involves seeing things from Russia's perspective to a certain extent and not just saying "NATO = Good" and "Putin = Hitler" - ie trying to find a compromise in which all sides are better off than the current war. Surely at the start everyone said Ukraine couldn't stand up against Russia, I assumed it would be over in a couple of weeks, particularly seeing convoys of tanks rolling towards Kyiv in the first few days, it's Ukraine that has proved us all wrong by holding out for so long. Although the ultimate outcome was inevitably still going to be some sort of Russian victory in the long term unless Putin decided the attrition was too great and decided to retreat (having achieved his objectives obviously (to save face)) or public opinion in Russia against the war became untenable. I do think Russia would like out as much as Ukraine and Trump may be the person to allow Putin to get out, although I think the peace may be pretty bad for the people of Ukraine who have dared to defy Putin. How much land will he want? And presumably he would demand a change in government. Will Ukraine be willing to accept the terms Putin will offer, having fought so bravely for so long to defend their country? Not a bad analysis in my view except the last bit about regime change. I can't see anyone agreeing to that although Zelensky himself knows he needs to hold elections asap. If it moves to a RUssian puppet that would be a much bigger loss than part of the eastern provinces. Disclaimer, I'm biased in that I own property in Kyiv which would be worth much less under a Russian puppet regime and stands to gain considerably should Ukraine join the EU.
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k6
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Trump
Nov 30, 2024 21:14:41 GMT
Post by k6 on Nov 30, 2024 21:14:41 GMT
Don't be so sure. There's likely to be more hilarious guff on the way. I honestly can't fathom why any of you bother to engage with this fruitloop. I have a different perspective on the best way forward in this conflict than the mainstream, it is not that I am Pro-Russian as some people seem to want to think. I was also told I was a Pro-Russian fruitloop when I said Ukraine cannot win in a war against Russia. which is now self evident. My opinions on the way to resolve this situation are based on the fact that 1) Ukraine/NATO cannot win in a conventional war against Russia on its doorstep 2) I do not want to see the end of the human civilization in a nuclear war and 3) I do not want to see any more Ukrainians killed in a war they cannot win and can avoid in my opinion. The only solution is therefore a diplomatic one which involves seeing things from Russia's perspective to a certain extent and not just saying "NATO = Good" and "Putin = Hitler" - ie trying to find a compromise in which all sides are better off than the current war. You are pro russian and we had chance to find this one out. Ukraine could easily win this war if only west was not so naïve and cowardly ( WWII reminder ). Dont write its self evident when its not. this exactly Putin'ing you as a russia supporter. Ukraine can win this war on its won, win NATO russia stands no chance. " I do not want to see the end of the human civilization in a nuclear war " - another scaremongering. you do what putin does, almost by the book. " I do not want to see any more Ukrainians killed in a war they cannot win " - yes it can and you keep repeating your self over and over pretending a good will when its not. " The only solution is therefore a diplomatic one which involves seeing things from Russia's perspective " - so you are backing up russia then ? there is only one way and its been from very beginning of this war . russia GFYS . . .
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Nov 30, 2024 21:32:16 GMT
Russians may decide that they will not die in the next wave of 'shock army' tactics .
and how just many North Koreans can they pile up?
Their tactics have not changed since WW2 .Just advance into machine gunfire and then send in the next wave.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 1, 2024 7:30:10 GMT
Tell you what, when Russua alliws a full investigation if the Malaysian airlines crash, hands over the Salisbury suspects, etc then calls for JFK investigation might be credible. This is of course the country where people regularly mysteriously fall out of windows. To be fair to the Russians they do not go around the world taking the moral high horse telling people what is right and wrong - the US does. No, they just invade and annex the neighbours.
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angrysaveruk
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Trump
Dec 1, 2024 9:06:10 GMT
Post by angrysaveruk on Dec 1, 2024 9:06:10 GMT
Although I am against the invasion of Ukraine and the upward of a million casualties, to be fair to Russia there has been some provocation and it is now widely accepted that Ukraine is being used to fight a Proxy war against Russia. If you remove the US and its goal of global domination from this situation I do not believe this war would have ever taken place. Now it is becoming increasingly obvious Ukraine with US/NATO backing cannot win this conflict against Russia and therefore the only solution for people who are concerned about Ukraine and the possibility of WW3 is to find a resolution. This resolution will have to recognise that Russia has the upper hand on the battle front, which is why I believe there is so much resistance to entering negotiations since admitting this will seriously damage global perceptions about US/NATO military power. The tragedy is that in my opinion this whole conflict could have been avoided in the first place.
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Greenwood2
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Trump
Dec 1, 2024 10:03:24 GMT
Post by Greenwood2 on Dec 1, 2024 10:03:24 GMT
Although I am against the invasion of Ukraine and the upward of a million casualties, to be fair to Russia there has been some provocation and it is now widely accepted that Ukraine is being used to fight a Proxy war against Russia. If you remove the US and its goal of global domination from this situation I do not believe this war would have ever taken place. Now it is becoming increasingly obvious Ukraine with US/NATO backing cannot win this conflict against Russia and therefore the only solution for people who are concerned about Ukraine and the possibility of WW3 is to find a resolution. This resolution will have to recognise that Russia has the upper hand on the battle front, which is why I believe there is so much resistance to entering negotiations since admitting this will seriously damage global perceptions about US/NATO military power. The tragedy is that in my opinion this whole conflict could have been avoided in the first place.The only ways to have avoided the war was for either Russia to not have marched into Ukraine, or for Ukraine to not have defended itself against the initial open aggression, which are you suggesting and how would either have been accomplished?
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Trump
Dec 1, 2024 12:01:49 GMT
Post by bracknellboy on Dec 1, 2024 12:01:49 GMT
........ The tragedy is that in my opinion this whole conflict could have been avoided in the first place. ....... a thoroughly startling piece of insight: why has everybody else failed to come to the same opinion.....
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angrysaveruk
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Trump
Dec 1, 2024 12:07:28 GMT
Post by angrysaveruk on Dec 1, 2024 12:07:28 GMT
The tragedy is that in my opinion this whole conflict could have been avoided in the first place. The only ways to have avoided the war was for either Russia to not have marched into Ukraine, or for Ukraine to not have defended itself against the initial open aggression, which are you suggesting and how would either have been accomplished?
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ilmoro
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Trump
Dec 1, 2024 12:22:11 GMT
Post by ilmoro on Dec 1, 2024 12:22:11 GMT
The only ways to have avoided the war was for either Russia to not have marched into Ukraine, or for Ukraine to not have defended itself against the initial open aggression, which are you suggesting and how would either have been accomplished? Russia is pretty good at proxy wars ... the conflict in Ukraine started with Russian proxies, supported by actual Russian forces (admitted by Putin), seizing Crimea and then a large part of the Donbass in 2014.
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