michaelc
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Riots
Aug 4, 2024 19:29:55 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 4, 2024 19:29:55 GMT
Must be Putin eh??? Not one of his 50,000 mates.... If you think his handful of slack-jawed knuckle-dragging followers are really chucking big money at him, I've got a bridge to sell you. It certainly won't be direct... They aren't quite that stupid. No, it'll be channelled through a variety of third parties - and, yes, it'll come from a variety of other sources, many of which are intertwined. For a start, the same sort of US conservative right that's enabling the middle east have been proudly providing lucrative funding for years - www.meforum.org/7292/mef-organizes-25000-strong-protest-in-supportAnd if you're about to say "But I thought Putin was on Iran's side?"... He was on both sides, because the instability works nicely for him, but he's burned his bridges more recently. www.brookings.edu/articles/what-is-russias-role-in-the-israel-gaza-crisis/This is all very definitely intertwined. These lackwits are just the pawns being thrown away. I'm sure someone like Tommy would accept money for his campaigns from as many sources as possible. Doesn't mean he's in their pockets. Equally, I'm quite sure the UK and US are also involved in financing ner-do-goods in foreign lands. Why do you kid yourself that we are someone morally superior to the rest of the UN ?
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michaelc
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Riots
Aug 4, 2024 19:31:57 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 4, 2024 19:31:57 GMT
But Labour are committed to reducing the prison population via an early release programme.
The problem with rioters is the same as many other criminals in society (for example shop lifters). They commit crime because the chances of getting caught are slim and the likely punishment is trivial. If it was me I would make a loud announcement to disperse and if people are aggressive towards police after that then start shooting them. Bring back the good old days of 'looters will be shot on site'.
You wouldn't have to shoot too many befor they got the message and behaved. Society is just too soft on people that break the law.
Dont tell Starmer about your ideas about how to enforce public order, for some reason I think he might agree with you. This is the odd thing about western liberals. They preach and pontificate over all the difference nuances of how we should treat for example, different kinds of trans people but then are quite happy to see thugs shot on site on our streets. Are they really liberals or are these moralists actually more sinister than we thought?
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 4, 2024 19:42:56 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 4, 2024 19:42:56 GMT
Dont tell Starmer about your ideas about how to enforce public order, for some reason I think he might agree with you. This is the odd thing about western liberals. They preach and pontificate over all the difference nuances of how we should treat for example, different kinds of trans people but then are quite happy to see thugs shot on site on our streets. Are they really liberals or are these moralists actually more sinister than we thought? Umm, can I just point you to article 2 and protocol 13 of the ECHR?
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 4, 2024 19:46:17 GMT
Dont tell Starmer about your ideas about how to enforce public order, for some reason I think he might agree with you. This is the odd thing about western liberals. They preach and pontificate over all the difference nuances of how we should treat for example, different kinds of trans people but then are quite happy to see thugs shot on site on our streets.Are they really liberals or are these moralists actually more sinister than we thought? and your evidence for this is what exactly? Which particular set of "western liberals" is saying this? Making stuff up and spouting it doesn't actually make it true.
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 4, 2024 19:47:08 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 4, 2024 19:47:08 GMT
Making stuff up and spouting it doesn't actually make it true. It seems to be working out so far.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 4, 2024 19:52:39 GMT
Dont tell Starmer about your ideas about how to enforce public order, for some reason I think he might agree with you. This is the odd thing about western liberals. They preach and pontificate over all the difference nuances of how we should treat for example, different kinds of trans people but then are quite happy to see thugs shot on site on our streets. Are they really liberals or are these moralists actually more sinister than we thought? They are basically 21st Century religious nutters. God may be dead but some peoples desire to conform to crazy dogmatic ideologies is not. Quite a large percentage of the "Left" are what were at one time religious zealots, the virtue signalling and dogmatism expressed by a number of people on this forum are the modern equivalents of Piety and Zealotry. Also like their religious predecessors they tend to be highly hypocritical and self righteous.
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michaelc
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Riots
Aug 4, 2024 19:52:44 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 4, 2024 19:52:44 GMT
This is the odd thing about western liberals. They preach and pontificate over all the difference nuances of how we should treat for example, different kinds of trans people but then are quite happy to see thugs shot on site on our streets.Are they really liberals or are these moralists actually more sinister than we thought? and your evidence for this is what exactly? Which particular set of "western liberals" is saying this? Making stuff up and spouting it doesn't actually make it true. Keep up BB. Your buddy said this back thread: " If it was me I would make a loud announcement to disperse and if people are aggressive towards police after that then start shooting them".
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 4, 2024 20:02:00 GMT
and your evidence for this is what exactly? Which particular set of "western liberals" is saying this? Making stuff up and spouting it doesn't actually make it true. Keep up BB. Your buddy said this back thread: " If it was me I would make a loud announcement to disperse and if people are aggressive towards police after that then start shooting them". I know that, I read it: IIRC that was agent69 I don't think he would particularly label himself as a "western liberal" in the sense you regularly appear to use. And even if he did, the idea that you would literally shoot protesters merely for being "aggressive" automatically rather puts you in the "hang and flog 'em" brigade and not in the liberal brigade. But of course, the problem here is that you have a tendency to throw the term "liberal", "ultra liberal" and other similar terms literally at anything or anybody you disagree with. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy when considering your labels.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Aug 4, 2024 20:06:05 GMT
Dont tell Starmer about your ideas about how to enforce public order, for some reason I think he might agree with you. This is the odd thing about western liberals. They preach and pontificate over all the difference nuances of how we should treat for example, different kinds of trans people but then are quite happy to see thugs shot on site on our streets.Are they really liberals or are these moralists actually more sinister than we thought? Have you seen the coverage from Rotheram today? A row of police with shields and the rioters are lining up to throw bricks and bottles at them. After a warning just pull a gun out and shoot one of them, I can guarantee the rest will all be putting their bricks down, and their mates in the next city along won't be rushing to throw things either.
Short, sharp shock. Problem solved.
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 4, 2024 20:08:06 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 4, 2024 20:08:06 GMT
But of course, the problem here is that you have a tendency to throw the term "liberal", "ultra liberal" and other similar terms literally at anything or anybody you disagree with. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy when considering your labels. Can somebody please explain to me how "liberal" can possibly be anything but a compliment? 
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 4, 2024 20:40:33 GMT
For me all I've seen on the BBC tonight was a clip of a guy getting beaten by Police and the police on horseback charging at people,
for me it's a sign of the way policing is now working
Right wing protests hit them hard ( Starmer says lock them up on remand )
Just stop oil blocking roads block the roads ( Starmer says nothing )
protesters tear down a statue they don't like and chuck it in the sea police just stand back. ( Starmer says nothing )
Roma people attack police when police try to help Social services remove children seen as "in danger" and they withdraw and then police say we will discuss how we can avoid this in the future ( Starmer says nothing )
it's a fact that the Police Social Services etc knew what was going on in Rotherham for years but did nothing because they were scared of being accused of racism
Niyak Ghorbani, who was held a banner reading “Hamas is terrorist”, was pulled to the ground and handcuffed by officers after an incident took place close to a pro Palestine march, police later dearrested him and said he was arrested for his own safety after he was assaulted - let that sink in the Police arrest the victim.
surely anyone can see that different groups are being treated differently
the police must apply the law equally without considering race, sex, religion etc, and honestly in my opinion at the moment they don't
Yes I accept that in certain circumstances coloured people more likely to be stopped by police.
however in London I regularly hear the comments "the feds don't stop no white boys" - Fact ( from the mayors website ) Despite making up only 13% of London’s total population, black Londoners account for 45% of London’s knife murder victims, 61% of knife murder perpetrators and 53% of knife crime perpetrators.
Having lived in an inner area with a fair number of Eastern Europeans I saw knives waved in pubs, and over the later 2-3 years they went from what I would call a large pocket knife ( often a stanley type knife ) to knives with longer and longer blades
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 5, 2024 7:00:19 GMT
surely anyone can see that different groups are being treated differently the police must apply the law equally without considering race, sex, religion etc, and honestly in my opinion at the moment they don't The law in this country is definitely not based on the principle of different groups being treated equally. The argument seems to be that minority groups need additional protection, and you could certainly argue that certain groups have historically been unfairly treated - although in my opinion this has been more by the State and the Police than the general public. I suspect the real reason these often fairly draconian laws have been brought in by the political class is to control the population not because they are genuinely concerned about vulnerable minority groups. For example, the Blair Government that brought in a lot of the current laws to protect minority groups were actively and directly involved in the illegal invasion of Muslim countries, the looting of their resources and the murder of hundreds of thousands of Muslims - obviously you cannot reconcile these two things. It is a bit like the US going about the world telling everyone they believe Civil Rights when they actively support Saudi Arabia who have an official policy of stoning gay guys to death - obviously you cannot reconcile these two things. One way you can reconcile these things is that the political class is made up of a bunch of lying megalomaniacs who should be treated with extreme suspicion.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Riots
Aug 5, 2024 9:09:04 GMT
Post by keitha on Aug 5, 2024 9:09:04 GMT
surely anyone can see that different groups are being treated differently the police must apply the law equally without considering race, sex, religion etc, and honestly in my opinion at the moment they don't The law in this country is definitely not based on the principle of different groups being treated equally. The argument seems to be that minority groups need additional protection, and you could certainly argue that certain groups have historically been unfairly treated - although in my opinion this has been more by the State and the Police than the general public. I suspect the real reason these often fairly draconian laws have been brought in by the political class is to control the population not because they are genuinely concerned about vulnerable minority groups. For example, the Blair Government that brought in a lot of the current laws to protect minority groups were actively and directly involved in the illegal invasion of Muslim countries, the looting of their resources and the murder of hundreds of thousands of Muslims - obviously you cannot reconcile these two things. It is a bit like the US going about the world telling everyone they believe Civil Rights when they actively support Saudi Arabia who have an official policy of stoning gay guys to death - obviously you cannot reconcile these two things. One way you can reconcile these things is that the political class is made up of a bunch of lying, megalomaniac psychopaths who should be treated with extreme suspicion. we also have the stupidity of Gays/Queers for Palestine openly supporting Hamas, the same group who would punish their sexuality by throwing then off buildings
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 5, 2024 12:35:20 GMT
Hard to find positives in all of this but if there is one it is that large swathes of the working class have been educated to realise that our media is either government owned or controlled or is owned by a tiny group of very wealthy businessmen. Hopefully the middle class such as on this forum will catch on in time.  |
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 5, 2024 13:57:49 GMT
Hard to find positives in all of this but if there is one it is that large swathes of the working class have been educated to realise that our media is either government owned or controlled or is owned by a tiny group of very wealthy businessmen. Hopefully the middle class such as on this forum will catch on in time. I don't understand this. I'm trying to parse it, and I'm really struggling. Are you saying that:- 1. Our media is either government controlled, or is owned by a tiny group of very wealthy businessmen. As a result of these riots the "working class" will realise this. The "middle class" don't currently realise this, but hopefully will soon. This realisation is a positive thing (in what way?). or 2. Large swathes of the "working class" have historically been educated to realise that our media is either government controlled, or is owned by a tiny group of very wealthy businessmen. This is correct, and as a result of these riots the "working class" will..."something unstated". The "middle class" don't currently realise something about "something unstated", but hopefully will soon. This realisation is a positive thing (in what way?). or 3. Our media is either government controlled, or is owned by a tiny group of very wealthy businessmen. As a result of these riots the "working class" will realise this. The "middle class" don't currently realise this, but hopefully will soon. This realisation is a negative thing (in what way?). or 4. Large swathes of the "working class" have historically been educated to realise that our media is either government controlled, or is owned by a tiny group of very wealthy businessmen. This is correct, and as a result of these riots the "working class" will..."something unstated". The "middle class" don't currently realise something about "something unstated", but hopefully will soon. This realisation is a negative thing (in what way?). or 5. This is "Disgusted from Tunbridge Wells", reporting on the shortcomings of the MSM, live from Kharkiv, Gaza, Mynamar, Pyongyang, Southport?
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