keitha
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 14:22:13 GMT
Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2024 14:22:13 GMT
My aim in this little discussion is not to support him as I don't. I am saying he is probably not racist and is not as bad as the hard-core BNP/skinhead types but I accept he may attract some of those. Frankly those sort are probably better led by him than a Hitler type. He also appears to have a deeper understanding of the world than he did 20 years ago including other faiths. We are all different to what we were 20 years ago. The world and culture moves on. Yes I'm sad that some things have changed, IMHO not for the better, for example my Building society used to run a Christmas saver scheme ( regular saver that matured at the end of October ) after complaints ( and I'm told it was < 10 ) they dropped the word Christmas. The UK is a basically Christian Country and as such we should be able to celebrate it with none of the "happy holidays" etc  . Don't like the British way of life or culture then go somewhere else. I personally feel that the immigrants from the Indian subcontinent, the West indies, from Europe, and from Asia adopted the British way of life and have enhanced our society, and they are from a lot of different religions. It does however seem that the latest influx most from Africa seem to want the UK to change to the culture they want rather than adapting to ours. Groups I see no problem with removing from the UK anyone previously deported or refused asylum because of criminality - on the next train / plane / boat anyone who arrived in the UK as an adult ( > 17 years of age ) who commits murder or a serious sexual offence, ditto caught defrauding the benefits system. ( I can't see how If You come the UK as a baby you should be deported to a country you have no connection to ) anyone who traffics other people into the UK By anyone I mean anyone who is not a British citizen by birth, or has given up British citizenship and yes I anticipate that I will be told I'm wrong
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 7, 2024 14:31:29 GMT
I am saying he is probably not racist ...and I'm saying the available evidence deeply demonstrates that he is. Deeper than he had in 2004 when he joined the BNP? Deeper than he had in 2009 when he founded the EDL? Deeper than he had in 2016 when he founded Pegida UK? Deeper than he had in 2018 when he was banned from Twitter for "hateful conduct", then racially defamed a schoolboy? Deeper than he had in 2019 when he was banned from Facebook and Instagram for "motivating racial violence", heavily restricted and demonetised on Youtube, and banned from Snapchat for "hate speech and harrassment"? Deeper than he had in 2020 when he was banned from TikTok for holding up a copy of the Quran and said "This is why we're in this mess"? Leaving VK as his only social media until Elon unbanned him from Twix. Yeh, right.
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 14:35:39 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 7, 2024 14:35:39 GMT
Groups I see no problem with removing from the UK anyone previously deported or refused asylum because of criminality - on the next train / plane / boat anyone who arrived in the UK as an adult ( > 17 years of age ) who commits murder or a serious sexual offence, ditto caught defrauding the benefits system. ( I can't see how If You come the UK as a baby you should be deported to a country you have no connection to ) anyone who traffics other people into the UK By anyone I mean anyone who is not a British citizen by birth, or has given up British citizenship and yes I anticipate that I will be told I'm wrong No, you'll be told that's actually the current law - and happens regularly. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2024-0023/"The Home Secretary has a duty to make a deportation order in respect of non-British or Irish citizens who have been convicted of an offence in the UK and sentenced to at least 12 months’ imprisonment, unless certain exceptions apply. He also has discretionary powers to deport non-British citizens if he considers it to be “conducive to the public good”."British citizens cannot be deported from the UK, because only the country of nationality HAS to accept them. Dual nationals can be deprived of their UK citizenship, since the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002. www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/41/section/4Then they can be returned to their other country of nationality.
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keitha
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 15:06:03 GMT
Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2024 15:06:03 GMT
adrianc personally I would not want to see people removed for relatively minor offences , but serious offences they should serve the time and then be on a plane. one issue for me is as an example in the Rotherham case it was years after Theresa May as Home secretary decide that certain people should lose British Citizenship before the Courts finally said they must go and it cost the tax payer hundreds of thousands of pounds.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 7, 2024 15:34:49 GMT
adrianc personally I would not want to see people removed for relatively minor offences , but serious offences they should serve the time and then be on a plane. one issue for me is as an example in the Rotherham case it was years after Theresa May as Home secretary decide that certain people should lose British Citizenship before the Courts finally said they must go and it cost the tax payer hundreds of thousands of pounds. But why would you throw the book at Begum? She was supposed to be a child when she left and moreover was British from birth (I think?) It seems reasonable to me that there are certain categories of crime that could strip _naturalised_ citizenship but surely when born a Brit you remain a Brit? If she has done terrible things try her for it .
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 15:57:24 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 7, 2024 15:57:24 GMT
adrianc personally I would not want to see people removed for relatively minor offences "minimum 12 months imprisonment"
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keitha
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 16:15:25 GMT
Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2024 16:15:25 GMT
adrianc personally I would not want to see people removed for relatively minor offences , but serious offences they should serve the time and then be on a plane. one issue for me is as an example in the Rotherham case it was years after Theresa May as Home secretary decide that certain people should lose British Citizenship before the Courts finally said they must go and it cost the tax payer hundreds of thousands of pounds. But why would you throw the book at Begum? She was supposed to be a child when she left and moreover was British from birth (I think?) It seems reasonable to me that there are certain categories of crime that could strip _naturalised_ citizenship but surely when born a Brit you remain a Brit? If she has done terrible things try her for it . IIRC she tore up and destroyed her British passport and declared she was a citizen of the Islamic state, so in that regards tough
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 16:46:45 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 7, 2024 16:46:45 GMT
But why would you throw the book at Begum? She was supposed to be a child when she left and moreover was British from birth (I think?) It seems reasonable to me that there are certain categories of crime that could strip _naturalised_ citizenship but surely when born a Brit you remain a Brit? If she has done terrible things try her for it . IIRC she tore up and destroyed her British passport and declared she was a citizen of the Islamic state, so in that regards tough No such thing as a "citizen of Islamic state". To say there are citizens requires the nation state to be recognised. The Home Sec removed her British nationality on the grounds she was entitled to Bangladeshi nationality through descent, even though she didn't have it, had never been there, and had crossed the age limit for applying for it. But isn't this in the wrong thread?
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michaelc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 17:02:01 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 7, 2024 17:02:01 GMT
But why would you throw the book at Begum? She was supposed to be a child when she left and moreover was British from birth (I think?) It seems reasonable to me that there are certain categories of crime that could strip _naturalised_ citizenship but surely when born a Brit you remain a Brit? If she has done terrible things try her for it . IIRC she tore up and destroyed her British passport and declared she was a citizen of the Islamic state, so in that regards tough So Fred West, The Yorkshire Ripper et al should be treated better than her?
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 7, 2024 21:01:54 GMT
IIRC she tore up and destroyed her British passport and declared she was a citizen of the Islamic state, so in that regards tough So Fred West, The Yorkshire Ripper et al should be treated better than her? The tabloids, in which I include the Mail, have to fill their pages with shock horror and outrage. Their Stop The Boats, Invasion! ranting has been going on for years. Now they are raging about yobs and hooligans bringing violence to our streets. It is just the same with their climate change denial staple, replaced, especially in the Mail, with shock and horror at record temperatures and wildfires. Begum is a tabloid victim. Despicable politicians responded to the call to action. Leaving any British citizen stateless is disgraceful.
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keitha
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 21:05:56 GMT
Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2024 21:05:56 GMT
Did I say that
They should be locked up forever
personally I feel she would always be a danger and would either need to be imprisoned for the rest of her life or closely watched.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 7, 2024 22:42:12 GMT
So Fred West, The Yorkshire Ripper et al should be treated better than her? The tabloids, in which I include the Mail, have to fill their pages with shock horror and outrage. Their Stop The Boats, Invasion! ranting has been going on for years. Now they are raging about yobs and hooligans bringing violence to our streets. It is just the same with their climate change denial staple, replaced, especially in the Mail, with shock and horror at record temperatures and wildfires. Begum is a tabloid victim. Despicable politicians responded to the call to action. Leaving any British citizen stateless is disgraceful. This Begum thing highlights the madness of the UK government. From what I understand they let back in members of the IS military (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-british-jihadis-return-uk-iraq-syria-report-islamic-state-fighters-europe-threat-debate-terror-attacks-a8017811.html) and some teenage girl who went over there to be a housewife is banned from the country. You couldnt make it up.
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 22:55:33 GMT
Post by captainconfident on Aug 7, 2024 22:55:33 GMT
The tabloids, in which I include the Mail, have to fill their pages with shock horror and outrage. Their Stop The Boats, Invasion! ranting has been going on for years. Now they are raging about yobs and hooligans bringing violence to our streets. It is just the same with their climate change denial staple, replaced, especially in the Mail, with shock and horror at record temperatures and wildfires. Begum is a tabloid victim. Despicable politicians responded to the call to action. Leaving any British citizen stateless is disgraceful. This Begum thing highlights the madness of the UK government. From what I understand they let back in members of the IS military (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-british-jihadis-return-uk-iraq-syria-report-islamic-state-fighters-europe-threat-debate-terror-attacks-a8017811.html) and some teenage girl who went over there to be a housewife is banned from the country. You couldnt make it up. For once @angry, I completely agree. Yay! Now, about these riots. Like Dunkirk, it looks like you Brits have played a blinder, and turned it into a heartwarming story and the tabloids have gone wild. People turned out in force to show brotherly love. What an image booster for the country. Thanks Elon, and  off.
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registerme
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Riots
Aug 8, 2024 10:47:24 GMT
Post by registerme on Aug 8, 2024 10:47:24 GMT
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Riots
Aug 8, 2024 13:03:57 GMT
Post by moonraker on Aug 8, 2024 13:03:57 GMT
I have a friend of evident Asian heritage whose parents (from Mauritius and Gibraltar) came to this country legally. She is very critical of today's illegal immigrants and says that she could almost have joined the right-wing rioters - though what they would have made of that, I don't know!
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. Don't like the British way of life or culture then go somewhere else.
off.