j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Mar 7, 2014 11:07:39 GMT
If anybody wants to sell some Ipswich loan units, pm me with your AC tag & I'll try pick a couple off you (I know it's only just started drawing down, but in case you want to sell for some reason as I'd prefer purchasing from fellow members).  |
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 8, 2014 17:27:54 GMT
I'm about to buy one or two units of Ipswich, yes I'm a high roller. I've looked on the last ten pages of the AM and there are only UW (Underwriters). I'll buy them tomorrow (Sunday), so if anyone was thinking of selling... I assume that they'll go to the last page AIUI. Perhaps repy to this post, leaving your moniker, as of course it can be different to your name on here or elsewhere. Hope that's useful to someone.
IN EDIT Ah, or as j says above, you can pm me too.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 8, 2014 18:32:37 GMT
I'm about to buy one or two units of Ipswich, May be you should buy them from one of the UW's as recognition of the valuable role they play?
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Mar 8, 2014 20:36:09 GMT
I'm about to buy one or two units of Ipswich, May be you should buy them from one of the UW's as recognition of the valuable role they play? No one is denying or ignoring the important role underwriters play in getting loans picked up & carried over the line, sometimes entirely on their own (e.g. An*****y). But, they do that knowing full well the risks involved & surely they are well compensated for it in fees (though I do not confess to knowing what sort of fees/extra percentage they get for their troubles). When you are talking about a couple of hundred ££s that are being picked up here & there by small lenders like us, it probably does not make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, yet it might help a fellow small scale lender in freeing up some capital for them to diversify, compared to an underwriter who might have tens of thousands of ££s worth of units that will eventually be acquired by various others, if not, they are still earning interest on it like everyone else. Helping a fellow smaller lender first hardly shows a lack of gratitude to the much bigger ones! We all have a role to play on the platform at the end of the day. Just my opinion
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Post by jevans4949 on Mar 8, 2014 23:26:35 GMT
Ordering of vendors: it occurs to me that the most useful to all except the largest lenders would be to list them in ascending order of number (or value) of units available for sale. This would help small people who needed to sell, and probably wouldn't disadvantage the underwriters too much, as long as people are still buying units.
And if the underwriters themselves urgently needed their money back, the could always get somebody to feed them into the aftermarket ten at a time.
Question: If units are offered at a discount, would they have priority?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 9, 2014 0:11:14 GMT
Question: If units are offered at a discount, would they have priority? I'm not about to trawl through pages and pages of this forum to confirm this, but IIRC we have been told that the ordering of parts on the aftermarket is controlled by at least three factors. The third priority is the one we're seeing now. Another factor is the interest rate on the loan part, but that only affects auctions where that was a variable, and there hasn't been one of those for quite a while. The third factor is the mark-up or discount. So if a lender offers parts at a discount, they ought to appear at the top of the list. What I don't know is whether that would influence the parts that are selected when a potential buyer enters a number in the "Amount to buy" box. AIUI, that used to select parts starting at the top of the list, but it recently has been changed to do a more random selection. The moral of the story may be that if you're buying and there are some discounted parts at the top of the list you'll want to look carefully to see if the parts selected for you are the discounted ones. If they aren't, you'd need to select them manually. Until Chris comes along to tell us whether I'm remembering correctly and whether discounted parts would be handled appropriately.
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Post by chris on Mar 9, 2014 7:38:52 GMT
The "amount to buy" box will select in this order: highest effective interest rate taking the markup into account; followed by largest principal remaining; followed by a randomised order. I'll have to confirm on Monday if the list order when you view is identical to this. The reason for selecting the by largest principal remaining amount is that if someone wants to invest £100 and there's a single £10 loan unit for sale with all the others at the auto-split level of £100, were we to prioritise the £10 loan unit then that's all the person with £100 to invest would get. If they had £110 to invest then they'd get one of each. It's a simplistic solution to what is actually a very difficult and computationally expensive problem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problemA better solution will come down the road but for now we have a very simple solution that works well enough most of the time. |
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 9, 2014 9:22:57 GMT
I'm about to buy one or two units of Ipswich, May be you should buy them from one of the UW's as recognition of the valuable role they play? Yes, as no-one has put any Ipswich up as yet, Yes I probably will. I do want to acknowledge the important role Underwriters are playing at the moment. And as j said they're not only getting the interest but a fee also. I can't help but wonder is AC also insuring them against any lost beyond the interest and fee. I suspect AC is paying through the nose as they/we are relatively small but with the potential to be damaging to the UWs in the longer term. At the same time UW are people too, some of them might even be on this board; is that likely?(PM me UW's if you want me to buy you) I'm also conscious that we're building a community of sorts. And again as j says the help I'm offering is much more useful to similar sized Investors. Thanks for challenging my actions Agent69, it does help to force me to consider why I do things.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 9, 2014 9:42:19 GMT
Question: If units are offered at a discount, would they have priority? I'm not about to trawl through pages and pages of this forum to confirm this, but IIRC we have been told that the ordering of parts on the aftermarket is controlled by at least three factors. The third priority is the one we're seeing now. Another factor is the interest rate on the loan part, but that only affects auctions where that was a variable, and there hasn't been one of those for quite a while. The third factor is the mark-up or discount. So if a lender offers parts at a discount, they ought to appear at the top of the list. What I don't know is whether that would influence the parts that are selected when a potential buyer enters a number in the "Amount to buy" box. AIUI, that used to select parts starting at the top of the list, but it recently has been changed to do a more random selection. The moral of the story may be that if you're buying and there are some discounted parts at the top of the list you'll want to look carefully to see if the parts selected for you are the discounted ones. If they aren't, you'd need to select them manually. Until Chris comes along to tell us whether I'm remembering correctly and whether discounted parts would be handled appropriately. Discounters: A couple of weeks ago is the only time I've seen a discounter and they were the last in the queue behind all the UW's. Which I thought was odd and a concern to me as I was thinking, "I'll never get my stuff sold unless it's at a discount" I think her discount was 1% off. So I'm happy to see this under-review. IN EDIT. If the Units in a particular Auction in the Aftermarket could be sorted by clicking on the different headers, that would be very useful. I.e. Sort by Seller, sort by Outstanding Cap., sort etc. AIUI if loans are being sold for a profit in a secondary market i.e. a markup over the cost of the trade, then the firm needs extra regulation under current law. This is even before the new P2P/P2B regulation. There's no extra regulation if they're being sold at a loss to the face value. I'm happy to be corrected.
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Post by oldnick on Mar 9, 2014 10:11:12 GMT
The "amount to buy" box will select in this order: highest effective interest rate taking the markup into account; followed by largest principal remaining; followed by a randomised order. I'll have to confirm on Monday if the list order when you view is identical to this. The reason for selecting the by largest principal remaining amount is that if someone wants to invest £100 and there's a single £10 loan unit for sale with all the others at the auto-split level of £100, were we to prioritise the £10 loan unit then that's all the person with £100 to invest would get. If they had £110 to invest then they'd get one of each. It's a simplistic solution to what is actually a very difficult and computationally expensive problem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problemA better solution will come down the road but for now we have a very simple solution that works well enough most of the time. So if you really don't want to buy underwritten loan parts buy in lots smaller than £100 - assuming of course that anyone thinks to sell in lots smaller than that. Seems a bit petty though - many of these loans wouldn't exist without the underwriting.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 9, 2014 13:26:58 GMT
The "amount to buy" box will select in this order: highest effective interest rate taking the markup into account; followed by largest principal remaining; followed by a randomised order. I'll have to confirm on Monday if the list order when you view is identical to this. The reason for selecting the by largest principal remaining amount is that if someone wants to invest £100 and there's a single £10 loan unit for sale with all the others at the auto-split level of £100, were we to prioritise the £10 loan unit then that's all the person with £100 to invest would get. If they had £110 to invest then they'd get one of each. It's a simplistic solution to what is actually a very difficult and computationally expensive problem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problemA better solution will come down the road but for now we have a very simple solution that works well enough most of the time. If the Units in a particular Auction in the Aftermarket could be sorted by clicking on the different headers, that would be very useful. I.e. Sort by Seller, sort by Outstanding Cap., sort etc. This function would be nice for smaller bods but I've no idea how hard this would be to implement. I suppose that then gives the page size problem a new lease of life... Uh the life of a programmer.
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Post by chris on Mar 9, 2014 13:47:59 GMT
It would be pretty easy to implement but may run counter to our agreement with the underwriters. They want it to be fair in the way they are bid out, so that one underwriter isn't prefered over another when it comes to selling their loan units. This is why we include a random factor in the bulk buy facility. It also doesn't make too much sense from the platforms point of view to give facilities to allow people to avoid buying from the underwriters. If the underwriters aren't bought out from the loans then that facility can't be recycled into new loans reducing the diversity of loans in which everyone can invest.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Mar 9, 2014 14:55:35 GMT
I didn't realize you were renting money by time I thought it was for a particular purpose only and then when back to the UWer.
I love Underwriters but not as much as I love the guy's and gals on here. And if you're both you're getting extra love.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 9, 2014 15:00:28 GMT
It would be pretty easy to implement but may run counter to our agreement with the underwriters. They want it to be fair in the way they are bid out, so that one underwriter isn't prefered over another when it comes to selling their loan units. This is why we include a random factor in the bulk buy facility. It also doesn't make too much sense from the platforms point of view to give facilities to allow people to avoid buying from the underwriters. If the underwriters aren't bought out from the loans then that facility can't be recycled into new loans reducing the diversity of loans in which everyone can invest. Here here. And no I'm not an underwriter.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Mar 10, 2014 12:13:34 GMT
Barring the two biggies, the AM has been relatively quiet over the last week, if not longer. I wonder if people are holding on to their money in anticipation of what might come through the pipeline once the current 2 live loans finish in 4 days' times. It could also be we all had our fill of 'Ackney & Ipswich units.
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