|
Post by yorkshireman on Jun 18, 2016 13:38:06 GMT
Interesting that the guy charged with Jo Cox’s murder has been brought to London when the court appearance could have been held locally in say, Leeds.
I understand that the official reason given “was to avoid demonstrations” yet as there appeared to be no forward announcement why should there have been any demonstrations? However, it was noticeable that the press had obviously been informed as it was well represented outside Westminster Magistrates' Court.
Could this be an example of “we (the elites) know what is best and justice will be better served in the capital rather than in the backwoods of the fourth largest metropolitan area (West Yorkshire) in the country”?
Regardless of whether that is right or wrong, the elites, I include all politicians irrespective of political views in that, simply do not understand that they have created an atmosphere of scepticism among the majority of people who now view them with mistrust and consequently will vote to leave.
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jun 18, 2016 14:35:20 GMT
I wonder how the Lords are split? At least the hereditary set have longer than 5 minute year time horizons. Frankly both sides are appalling, with nobody painting anything other than black or white pictures. And as for Dave 'we'll leave if we don't get a better deal' .. (gets half of b&gger all) .. 'leaving would be a catastrophe' .. well his credibility index went negative about then. Depressing isn't it .. with the possible exception of Kidderminster one time, no matter who you vote for you always wind up with a politician. How about we let Dyson,Rose, et al run the country and put Dave, Boris, etc, in charge of something harmless? The Duke of Wellington in his letter to The Telegraph today ( link 5th letter down down) says "There is probably no majority in the House of Commons and certainly not in the House of Lords for all the necessary legislation consequent on a leave vote."
|
|
|
Post by lynnanthony on Jun 18, 2016 14:38:45 GMT
... Regardless of whether that is right or wrong, the elites, I include all politicians irrespective of political views in that, simply do not understand that they have created an atmosphere of scepticism among the majority of people who now view them with mistrust and consequently will vote to leave. If we mistrust our politicians why would we vote to return power to them? (Is it because we mistrust our own politicians less than we mistrust the politicians in Brussels? )
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Jun 18, 2016 14:53:06 GMT
I wonder how the Lords are split? At least the hereditary set have longer than 5 minute year time horizons. Frankly both sides are appalling, with nobody painting anything other than black or white pictures. And as for Dave 'we'll leave if we don't get a better deal' .. (gets half of b&gger all) .. 'leaving would be a catastrophe' .. well his credibility index went negative about then. Depressing isn't it .. with the possible exception of Kidderminster one time, no matter who you vote for you always wind up with a politician. How about we let Dyson,Rose, et al run the country and put Dave, Boris, etc, in charge of something harmless? The Duke of Wellington in his letter to The Telegraph today ( link 5th letter down down) says "There is probably no majority in the House of Commons and certainly not in the House of Lords for all the necessary legislation consequent on a leave vote." Does the invocation of Article 50 require Parliament assent? As Cameron has said he will invoke it immediately after a Leave vote I assume not. In which case Parliament role will be merely to shape Brexits form and I suspect the existing positions will shift in response. Some Remainers are just towing the party line without huge conviction (Corbyn?) and may alter their stance when confronted by a new reality. Amongst the Leave their are multiple views on what a Brexit looks like. Both sides will be far more polarised. Then you have 'democrats' who will support the will of the people even if they dont like it. Scots, Welsh, Irish will maneouvre to their own interests etc. Think any predictions on how HoP will act is highly speculative & such comments firmly placed in context of the current vote.
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jun 18, 2016 14:55:07 GMT
... Regardless of whether that is right or wrong, the elites, I include all politicians irrespective of political views in that, simply do not understand that they have created an atmosphere of scepticism among the majority of people who now view them with mistrust and consequently will vote to leave. If we mistrust our politicians why would we vote to return power to them? (Is it because we mistrust our own politicians less than we mistrust the politicians in Brussels? ) In my case, self interest! I mistrust all politicians wherever they may be based as I see them as self serving rather than serving the interests of the electorate. I despise Cameron yet I voted Conservative at the 2015 general election as I saw them as the better option for my family, myself and our finances rather than the potential unholy alliance of Labour and the SNP and UKIP would have been a wasted vote besides which they are as useful as a chocolate teapot and couldn’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery. Look after your own interests first whilst making sure you don’t do the dirty on other people.
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jun 18, 2016 15:28:07 GMT
Does the invocation of Article 50 require Parliament assent? As Cameron has said he will invoke it immediately after a Leave vote I assume not.
A recent FT blog suggests
"In the UK, it would seem that some form of parliamentary approval would be required — perhaps a motion or resolution rather than a statute. The position, however, is not clear and the UK government has so far been coy about being specific."
blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2016/06/14/can-the-united-kingdom-government-legally-disregard-a-vote-for-brexit/
Google
FT Can the United Kingdom government legally disregard a vote for Brexit?
to get a link that bypasses the FT paywall.
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jun 18, 2016 16:18:25 GMT
I wonder how the Lords are split? At least the hereditary set have longer than 5 minute year time horizons. Frankly both sides are appalling, with nobody painting anything other than black or white pictures. And as for Dave 'we'll leave if we don't get a better deal' .. (gets half of b&gger all) .. 'leaving would be a catastrophe' .. well his credibility index went negative about then. Depressing isn't it .. with the possible exception of Kidderminster one time, no matter who you vote for you always wind up with a politician. How about we let Dyson,Rose, et al run the country and put Dave, Boris, etc, in charge of something harmless? The Duke of Wellington in his letter to The Telegraph today ( link 5th letter down down) says "There is probably no majority in the House of Commons and certainly not in the House of Lords for all the necessary legislation consequent on a leave vote." Another Telegraph article caught my eye: “It’s time to call the killing of Jo Cox what it is: 'an act of far-Right terrorism'” If this had been an ordinary member of the public who had been murdered in the street there would have been a small article in the press, the police would have said that “regretfully they were in the wrong place at the wrong time” and the murderer jailed. End of story. In this case though it’s “One of our Own” who is the victim and the accused has to be brought to trial at the centre of power to make an example of these “far Right terrorists” Someone might even suggest a rerun of “Braveheart” and the defendant be hung, drawn and quartered in London as was William Wallace for defying the establishment. (Irony) No one seems to have given a moment’s thought to the accused, simply because of his connections with some unsavoury organisations, when it appears that he was desperately in need of help with regard to his health problems. Charity begins at home and perhaps those who volunteer to assist economic migrants in Calais might realise that their efforts would be better used to help people in the UK such as the accused, by simply offering companionship and mentoring.
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jun 18, 2016 16:39:37 GMT
I wonder how the Lords are split? At least the hereditary set have longer than 5 minute year time horizons. Frankly both sides are appalling, with nobody painting anything other than black or white pictures. And as for Dave 'we'll leave if we don't get a better deal' .. (gets half of b&gger all) .. 'leaving would be a catastrophe' .. well his credibility index went negative about then. Depressing isn't it .. with the possible exception of Kidderminster one time, no matter who you vote for you always wind up with a politician. How about we let Dyson,Rose, et al run the country and put Dave, Boris, etc, in charge of something harmless? The Duke of Wellington in his letter to The Telegraph today ( link 5th letter down down) says "There is probably no majority in the House of Commons and certainly not in the House of Lords for all the necessary legislation consequent on a leave vote." Getting back to what I originally intended to post. If we vote to leave, Dave, the Duke et al will have to get off their backsides, earn their keep and enact the electorate’s choice, won’t they?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,015
Likes: 5,144
|
Post by adrianc on Jun 18, 2016 17:12:39 GMT
No one seems to have given a moment’s thought to the accused, simply because of his connections with some unsavoury organisations, when it appears that he was desperately in need of help with regard to his health problems. Strange how nobody was saying that the last time somebody was murdered in the street by mentally-ill people shouting political slogans. Lee Rigby.
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jun 18, 2016 17:17:08 GMT
The Duke of Wellington in his letter to The Telegraph today ( link 5th letter down down) says "There is probably no majority in the House of Commons and certainly not in the House of Lords for all the necessary legislation consequent on a leave vote." Getting back to what I originally intended to post. If we vote to leave, Dave, the Duke et al will have to get off their backsides, earn their keep and enact the electorate’s choice, won’t they?
All depends on the scale of a leave majority.
I've heard a chilling assessment from a political lobbyist (a friend of a friend) but before this weeks murder that the calculation has already been made that refusing to implement brexit is unlikely to lead to a repeat of riots on the scale of the 2011 (or early/mid 1980's) riots as "they" believe too few of the young support brexit, and that a repeat of the much smaller scale riots at the time of the poll tax is "manageable".
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jun 18, 2016 17:18:32 GMT
I've just read a fascinating comment on another forum.
The received wisdom is if the UK votes brexit, but Scotland vote remain by a reasonable margin, the SNP will feel justified in calling a 2nd independence referendum "to allow Scotland to remain in the EU".
However the comment I've just read argues that it would be a brave decision for Scotland to vote for Independence from the UK in such circumstances given that if the Scottish economy was to struggle at any point in the future, Scots might be subject to a new rUK immigration points system if they wanted to work in rUK. And that applies in spades to those that currently live in the Scottish border areas but work in England. Without learning a foreign language, Scots would only have Eire as a bolt hole from economic strife at home.
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jun 18, 2016 18:01:34 GMT
Getting back to what I originally intended to post. If we vote to leave, Dave, the Duke et al will have to get off their backsides, earn their keep and enact the electorate’s choice, won’t they?
All depends on the scale of a leave majority.
I've heard a chilling assessment from a political lobbyist (a friend of a friend) but before this weeks murder that the calculation has already been made that refusing to implement brexit is unlikely to lead to a repeat of riots on the scale of the 2011 (or early/mid 1980's) riots as "they" believe too few of the young support brexit, and that a repeat of the much smaller scale riots at the time of the poll tax is "manageable".
In my book that proves the corrupt nature of the elites, how they view the electorate with contempt and confirms that voting leave is the right choice, even if they were to refuse to implement Brexit they will have received a bloody nose added to which, they will be totally discredited.
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jun 18, 2016 18:03:20 GMT
No one seems to have given a moment’s thought to the accused, simply because of his connections with some unsavoury organisations, when it appears that he was desperately in need of help with regard to his health problems. Strange how nobody was saying that the last time somebody was murdered in the street by mentally-ill people shouting political slogans. Lee Rigby. Strange how religious slogans become political ones.
|
|
jonah
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,031
Likes: 1,113
|
Post by jonah on Jun 18, 2016 18:23:43 GMT
I've just read a fascinating comment on another forum. The received wisdom is if the UK votes brexit, but Scotland vote remain by a reasonable margin, the SNP will feel justified in calling a 2nd independence referendum "to allow Scotland to remain in the EU". However the comment I've just read argues that it would be a brave decision for Scotland to vote for Independence from the UK in such circumstances given that if the Scottish economy was to struggle at any point in the future, Scots might be subject to a new rUK immigration points system if they wanted to work in rUK. And that applies in spades to those that currently live in the Scottish border areas but work in England. Without learning a foreign language, Scots would only have Eire as a bolt hole from economic strife at home. And in that scenario, how would such a 'border' be enforced? Surely unless Scotland managed to convince people it was the successor state, it would need to join as 'new', in schengen, euro etc. In that instance, if Scotland needs some form of process for entry to the rUK it would end up with a wall.... Im not saying it's a likely scenario, maybe 1 in 100 or less, but it would be very messy.
|
|
|
Post by earthbound on Jun 18, 2016 21:11:00 GMT
Edit.. i found this funny.
|
|