skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 24, 2016 18:02:41 GMT
Has anyone seen or heard anything from Gideon today? He's been conspicuous by his absence. Who he??? Is 'e the bloke who leaves bibles everywhere 'e goes?
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Post by mrclondon on Jun 24, 2016 18:02:50 GMT
One fascinating (for me ) sub-story on todays events concerns Jeremy Corbyn. JC is just about as far from my view of politics as its possible to get, I would have voted for Liz Kendall had I had a vote in that election last year.
However I can't help but think those labour MP's who are today agitating for JC's resignation are missing the point by a country mile. They say JC has failed the labour party by failing to give 110% to the remain campaign. But, over many years JC has consistently taken a more Eurosceptic view of a given situation than the rest of his parliamentary colleagues. JC was elected as party leader supposedly on the back of grassroot support from "real labour voters", yet those "real labour voters" are more biased to leave than remain and no amount of labour party spin would convince more than a small minority to switch to remain. Had JC forced the labour party to campaign for leave he would have been in step with those who elected him as leader, and would now be in a very credible position as Leader of the Opposition.
I'm not for one minute suggesting that JC could win a general election, but for his MP's to plot to remove him seems to be pretending that the chasm between historic labour voters and the national labour party doesn't exist.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 24, 2016 18:25:52 GMT
Has anyone seen or heard anything from Gideon today? He's been conspicuous by his absence. Not a peep, he must either be crying his eyes out, preparing his resignation speech, or calculating if he stands a chance against BB.
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james
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Post by james on Jun 24, 2016 18:35:53 GMT
That is an old petition that sets hurdles for 75% turnout and 60% majority that are not likely to be met. In effect it was seeking to rig the vote so that it was only possible to have a remain result. For context, that seeks a 75% turnout and the actual turnout in the vote was 72.2%. That is higher than the turnout than in the last five UK elections, going back to 1992 before it was beaten at 77.7%. Why do you say it is an old petition? It is current and signatures are still being added. If you look at the numbers they are increasing as I write. It's currently the 24th and the end date is 25 November. So just the day number says it's got to be at a minimum almost a month old already. All petitions run for six months so you can do a bit of date mathematics to work out when it started. But just get the json data and you will see this near to the start: "created_at":"2016-05-23T23:39:38.957Z" . So it's from 23 May. So rather than an attempt to try a keep on voting until the desired result is obtained that shows that it was an attempt to rig the referendum so that about half of the remain voters could force a failure by just not voting, preventing the 75% requirement from being reached, even if all of the others did vote..
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 24, 2016 19:06:26 GMT
I'm not for one minute suggesting that JC could win a general election...
Really ? I would think the odds on that happening have increased significantly. The Tories - in the form of their Westminster representatives - are now seriously fractured. They of course always have been over Europe, but this has bought it to a head and in a total gloves off way. Their MPS have gone from tolerating their differences for the greater party good, to not being able to be in the same room as each other. Having given the core activist base the thing they most craved - an in/out vote - that base will take away the message that they were right all along. As with the world over, that activist base sits much further towards the extreme side of the party than the mainstream voters. They will now feel both vindicated, and empowered. The grand scheme of making the conservatives appear 'nicer', more socially liberal, and keen to represent a broader constituency may well come to a shuddering halt. What odds on the local parties chucking out a good chunk of those in the centre/centre left of the party in favour of candidates more in tune with their thinking ? And who are they going to end up with as leader ? Going to have to come from either the Leave side, or the 'I kept my head down' brigade. Will a cerebral and crystal glass accent Michael Gove appeal to the neccesssary electorate masses, once he is off a single issue platform ? Boris the Bouffant Bafoon ? He has a style that can appeal across a broad spectrum, is the one person that might be able to avoid them from moving too far to the right, but I suspect that his vacuity and self interest is likely to be exposed. Besides, as a self declared believer in immigration he will come under difficulty squaring the circle opost leave success; Tory MPs wont trust him to handle the upcoming negotiations with the EU nor indeed the demands of either party leader or PM, plus he has never had any real support base amongst the MPs anyway, oh and a v. large proportion of the remain MPs now consider him as having utterly stabbed them and DC in the back; oh, and as the ex Mayor of London who was supposed to champion the interests of both Londoners and the London economy, he would be seen as a particular turn-off for that constituency. So maybe, just maybe, it's going to have to be that Theresa May person, as the candidate that can take them sufficiently to the right to appease the activists while maybe just about not taking it so far it loses the core central electorate and make them unelectable. The remainer's in the party will probably manage to just about look past their disquiet that she keep her head down. So I think a shift to the right is inevitable. And now that for the moment the elephant in the room immigration issue will be seen to have been slayed, those perhaps more natural labour voters who have switched to either UKIP or for a right wing Tory are likely to switch back to the party that they otherwise think best represents them. So unless the PLP ousts him, JCs chances of being next PM have gone up dramatically.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 24, 2016 19:42:06 GMT
If I was being absurdly and naively optimistic I'd suggest that there is an awful lot of common ground between the left wing / remain camp in the Tory party, the right wing remain camp in the Labour party, and the Lib Dems. Perhaps more common ground than between left and right and leave and remain Tories, and their equivalents in Labour. With UKIP continuing to hoover up the disillusioned (at least until they fail to deliver on Brexit promises).
Time for a new SDP?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 24, 2016 19:42:18 GMT
Interesting, my expectation is that Boris will be PM within weeks, Tories will close ranks and win the next election and that Jezza will not be leading the Labours for very much longer.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 24, 2016 19:44:57 GMT
Interesting, my expectation is that Boris will be PM within weeks, Tories will close ranks and win the next election and that Jezza will not be leading the Labours for very much longer. Ladbrokes currently have:- Boris Johson 4/6 Theresa May 11/4 Michael Gove 7/1 Andrea Leadsom (who?) 14/1 Priti Patel 20/1
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 24, 2016 19:54:19 GMT
Of course we should not forget that the bookies had EUSSR Remain odds-on favourites.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 24, 2016 19:59:29 GMT
What happens to all our MEP's when we leave? I assume they all get a big juicy pay off and are put out to grass
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 24, 2016 20:00:03 GMT
Interesting, my expectation is that Boris will be PM within weeks, Tories will close ranks and win the next election and that Jezza will not be leading the Labours for very much longer. Ladbrokes currently have:- Boris Johson 4/6 Theresa May 11/4 Michael Gove 7/1 Andrea Leadsom (who?) 14/1 Priti Patel 20/1 Andrea Leadsom is the Energy Minister and was the third Brexiteer in the debates with BoJo & Gisela Stuart, She is a former city banker and was very effective in the campaign so unsurprising she is on the list.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 24, 2016 20:02:27 GMT
Ahh yeah, she is good (even if I disagree with her re her Brexit position).
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 24, 2016 20:02:57 GMT
One fascinating (for me ) sub-story on todays events concerns Jeremy Corbyn.
The only man that could make Michael Foot look smart.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 24, 2016 20:09:55 GMT
If I was being absurdly and naively optimistic I'd suggest that there is an awful lot of common ground between the left wing / remain camp in the Tory party, the right wing remain camp in the Labour party, and the Lib Dems. Perhaps more common ground than between left and right and leave and remain Tories, and their equivalents in Labour. With UKIP continuing to hoover up the disillusioned (at least until they fail to deliver on Brexit promises). Time for a new SDP? One question is how many of the Tory MPs were die hard Remainers and how many were just following the PM/party line as a career choice. Quite a few cabinet members were 'converts' to Remain after Dave came back with his 'deal' and announced he had turned to the Dark/Light side. Quite a lot of the Brexit MPs are towards the centre of the party on other issues eg David Davis
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 24, 2016 20:29:10 GMT
I have read 8 Brexit impact statements today from P2P/P2B platforms.
Ranging from the first on my emailmat this morning which was a thorough, professional, and interesting analysis from AC covering the macro situation and direct effect on the business to a rather more tardy "well it will be good and bad but we're going to carry on as usual" brief note from another platform.
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