ablender
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Post by ablender on Jun 25, 2016 6:56:17 GMT
As someone suggested above that the current petition is "old" (started approximately a month before the referendum) and intended to derail the EU referendum in favour of the Remain campaign, I was curious to find out who started this petition.
I am not sure if I can use the name here, so to play it safe I am going to use the three initials WOH. (no not the WHO). It is easy to find and totally publicly available.
It turns out that there is a certain WOH who is a blogger for Bloggers4UKIP.
Now we all know that there might be many other WOH people out there, but given that in May, when this petition was started, Nigel Farage said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way", it strikes me as very curious and far from trying to derail the EU referendum in favour of the Remain campaign.
What do you make of that?
In the meantime this petition reached more than 690k signatures and counting. It only needed 100k signatures for a parliamentary debate.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jun 25, 2016 7:11:17 GMT
Yup, it's a funny old world. Had the result been reversed (52 - 48 for Remain) you can bet that Farage, Jenkin, Fox, Duncan-Smith and the rest of the ideologically-entrenched Leavers would be screaming from the rooftops that the referendum had been a stitch-up, that Cameron / Osborne / Carney had conned the nation, and that they'd be battling on to force another referendum in short order. Instead, a million votes or so (somewhat dwarfed by the 13 million registered voters that couldn't be arsed to use their polling card, let alone the other millions that weren't even interested enough to register) have edged a narrow Leave decision that the country now pretty much accepts without question (Sturgeon's and Salmond's inevitable self-serving chunterings excepted)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 25, 2016 7:22:52 GMT
It only needed 100k signatures for a parliamentary debate. It only needed 100k signatures to be considered for a parliamentary debate. Big, and important, difference. I voted Remain. I think the country has made a monumentally stupid decision, and shot ourselves firmly in the foot. BUT - we've made a decision, and we have to stick with it. There are many anecdotes of people voting Leave, thinking it wouldn't actually happen, that it was merely a protest vote - or feeling lied-to (well, yes... they were - but there was enough evidence to demonstrate that it was lies) by the Leave campaign's rapidly-withdrawn promises of reduced migration and increased NHS funding. But... it's a vote. You put your X in the box. If even ONE more person puts their X in that box than that box, then that box is what should happen. No second-chances. No second-guessing. Live with the consequences.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 25, 2016 7:29:36 GMT
As someone suggested above that the current petition is "old" (started approximately a month before the referendum) and intended to derail the EU referendum in favour of the Remain campaign, I was curious to find out who started this petition. I am not sure if I can use the name here, so to play it safe I am going to use the three initials WOH. (no not the WHO). It is easy to find and totally publicly available. It turns out that there is a certain WOH who is a blogger for Bloggers4UKIP. Oh, it gets better. He's not a UKIP blogger... Oh, no. Read the Bloggers4UKIP page that mentions him... www.bloggers4ukip.org.uk/2014/05/english-democrats-mep-candidate-calls.html - his name, in relation to the petition, is public information, so no problem giving it here... He stood as an MEP candidate for the English Democrats - calling for the "forcible repatriation of immigrants and their descendants". Other members of that party are rampantly and openly homophobic and racist. He's also stood as a local council candidate in Leicester for them (using all three names) www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council/elections-and-voting/elections-2015/city-council-election-results-by-ward/braunstone-park-and-rowley-fields/
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jun 25, 2016 7:30:24 GMT
It only needed 100k signatures for a parliamentary debate. It only needed 100k signatures to be considered for a parliamentary debate. Big, and important, difference. I voted Remain. I think the country has made a monumentally stupid decision, and shot ourselves firmly in the foot. BUT - we've made a decision, and we have to stick with it. There are many anecdotes of people voting Leave, thinking it wouldn't actually happen, that it was merely a protest vote - or feeling lied-to (well, yes... they were - but there was enough evidence to demonstrate that it was lies) by the Leave campaign's rapidly-withdrawn promises of reduced migration and increased NHS funding. But... it's a vote. You put your X in the box. If even ONE more person puts their X in that box than that box, then that box is what should happen. No second-chances. No second-guessing. Live with the consequences. With currently more than 700k signatures, do you think that the parliament will merely consider this petition for a debate, without actually putting it forward for a proper debate?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 25, 2016 7:38:29 GMT
It only needed 100k signatures to be considered for a parliamentary debate. Big, and important, difference. I voted Remain. I think the country has made a monumentally stupid decision, and shot ourselves firmly in the foot. BUT - we've made a decision, and we have to stick with it. There are many anecdotes of people voting Leave, thinking it wouldn't actually happen, that it was merely a protest vote - or feeling lied-to (well, yes... they were - but there was enough evidence to demonstrate that it was lies) by the Leave campaign's rapidly-withdrawn promises of reduced migration and increased NHS funding. But... it's a vote. You put your X in the box. If even ONE more person puts their X in that box than that box, then that box is what should happen. No second-chances. No second-guessing. Live with the consequences. With currently more than 700k signatures, do you think that the parliament will merely consider this petition for a debate, without actually putting it forward for a proper debate? I think everything's moved on too far. The result cannot - should not - be ignored or re-run because we don't like the result. That just opens the way to all sorts of "Well, let's try again until we get something we prefer". The Irish referendum on the Nice Treaty is often accused of being the EU "making them try again until they got it right" - even though it wasn't. The Irish government negotiated significant concessions between the two referendums they chose to hold. Can you imagine the repercussions if there really WAS a "Well, let's try again..." - it'd be a gift to Farage and his ilk for decades.
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 25, 2016 7:56:06 GMT
It only needed 100k signatures for a parliamentary debate. It only needed 100k signatures to be considered for a parliamentary debate. Big, and important, difference. I voted Remain. I think the country has made a monumentally stupid decision, and shot ourselves firmly in the foot. BUT - we've made a decision, and we have to stick with it. There are many anecdotes of people voting Leave, thinking it wouldn't actually happen, that it was merely a protest vote - or feeling lied-to (well, yes... they were - but there was enough evidence to demonstrate that it was lies) by the Leave campaign's rapidly-withdrawn promises of reduced migration and increased NHS funding. But... it's a vote. You put your X in the box. If even ONE more person puts their X in that box than that box, then that box is what should happen. No second-chances. No second-guessing. Live with the consequences. Whilst you know I was a leaver, had your camp won, I would have also accepted the majority decision as final. I would not have been happy, but I believe in democracy. This 'I didn't get what I wanted so it doesn't count' attitude is totally unacceptable, because as I said earlier, how many referenda do we have to have for these people.......we all know the answer to that one.......until they get what THEY want. Having said that, Scottish people deserve another go, because the goal posts have moved. To ablender to say it only needed 100k signatures is total nonsense, it is only 0.6% of the total of those who even bothered to vote stay, so of course the requisit number would be reached. To you, (adrianc) you have my utter respect sir, hence the like. I do hope we're useless shots in this instance 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 25, 2016 7:57:47 GMT
This 'I didn't get what I wanted so it doesn't count' attitude is totally unacceptable, because as I said earlier, how many referenda do we have to have for these people.......we all know the answer to that one.......until they get what THEY want. <cough>Farridge</cough>
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james
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Post by james on Jun 25, 2016 8:17:47 GMT
It's currently the 24th and the end date is 25 November. So just the day number says it's got to be at a minimum almost a month old already. All petitions run for six months so you can do a bit of date mathematics to work out when it started. But just get the json data and you will see this near to the start: "created_at":"2016-05-23T23:39:38.957Z" . So it's from 23 May. So rather than an attempt to try a keep on voting until the desired result is obtained that shows that it was an attempt to rig the referendum so that about half of the remain voters could force a failure by just not voting, preventing the 75% requirement from being reached, even if all of the others did vote.. If a rerun is good for Nigel Farage why do you think that it is not good for Remain? If you want more info google it. In the meantime there is an ever increasing demand for a second referendum. Only 25% of the population not voting would produce a remain result. Something that remain voters could easily achieve with the help of non-voters. If it was really started by a brexit supporter - rather than just having the name of one given as creator without verification - that supporter needs to learn more about how to rig votes so they don't seek election rules that are sure to produce a remain result.
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Jun 25, 2016 8:27:36 GMT
Interesting to see the BBC interviewing several angry women and young folk clearly terrified about the future after all the establishment scare stories. I do hope people start behaving responsibly and stop continuing to predict Armageddon for Britain now their remain campaign has failed to produce their desired result.
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 25, 2016 8:36:50 GMT
This 'I didn't get what I wanted so it doesn't count' attitude is totally unacceptable, because as I said earlier, how many referenda do we have to have for these people.......we all know the answer to that one.......until they get what THEY want. <cough>Farridge</cough> Whether he said it first or not, I know not, because I do not have any interest in what comes out of his mouth
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 25, 2016 9:00:59 GMT
Whether he said it first or not, I know not, because I do not have any interest in what comes out of his mouth This referendum has only happened because of Farridge and UKIP. If not for them, we would not be here now. So if you're a Leave supporter, then you not only DO have an interest in his politics and position, but you should be thanking him.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 25, 2016 9:11:58 GMT
Interesting, my expectation is that Boris will be PM within weeks, Tories will close ranks and win the next election and that Jezza will not be leading the Labours for very much longer. I don't rule out any of these outcomes, nor indeed a combination of some others ! JC has always had a fingernail grip on the labour leadership. But if he does survive through to the next GE then I think the chances of his being the next PM have gone up, not down. Not least because the dent that UKIP made in prior labour seats is unlikely to happen again (UKIP might even choose not to contest the next election). Despite the general loathing of him within the PLP, the PLP have had trouble coalescing around a remove campaign. The further problem they have - unless they have since reversed/modified the rule changes which were responsible for him being voted in, is that if they boot him out he may just bounce back in again. In theory the PLP could refuse to get him on the shortlist which goes to vote, but will the NEC and the union backers then create sufficient merry hell that he has to go on it? It's possible that his union backers are likewise appalled at his performance during the referendum and therefore will roll over. Also possible that the cohorts who signed up to the party for the last leadership contest will be disillusioned/apathetic and won't bother next time. REgaardless the scenario is not as simple as his PLP colleagues booting him off his perch. The Tories are renowned for their ability to put survival of the party (and their seats) above everything. There has rarely been a threat of them having a Michael Foot moment. so if the MPs believe BOJO is their best chance at the next election they might well vote him in. I just wonder whether the damage done with his colleagues, on top of not having a natural support base among MPs is too great. And if they are putting the good of the country first, do they really think he is the right person to lead negotiations in what is probably the most important next 2-2.5 years in our recent history ? His heart is not in doing the tough yards, he's a showman, and his colleagues know it. p.s. you could argue that Brexit was not just a Farage/Cameron/Osborne legacy, but equally an Ed Milliband legacy. His leadership rule changes bought in Corbyn, and...
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 25, 2016 9:14:20 GMT
Whether he said it first or not, I know not, because I do not have any interest in what comes out of his mouth This referendum has only happened because of Farridge and UKIP. If not for them, we would not be here now. So if you're a Leave supporter, then you not only DO have an interest in his politics and position, but you should be thanking him. I believe he was merely a catalyst, we may have had to wait a few more years, but dissatisfaction in the EU and the way it is heading has been building here for years, it DOES not make me a UKIP supporter.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 25, 2016 10:04:19 GMT
Interesting, my expectation is that Boris will be PM within weeks, Tories will close ranks and win the next election and that Jezza will not be leading the Labours for very much longer. I don't rule out any of these outcomes, nor indeed a combination of some others ! JC has always had a fingernail grip on the labour leadership. But if he does survive through to the next GE then I think the chances of his being the next PM have gone up, not down. Not least because the dent that UKIP made in prior labour seats is unlikely to happen again (UKIP might even choose not to contest the next election). Despite the general loathing of him within the PLP, the PLP have had trouble coalescing around a remove campaign. The further problem they have - unless they have since reversed/modified the rule changes which were responsible for him being voted in, is that if they boot him out he may just bounce back in again. In theory the PLP could refuse to get him on the shortlist which goes to vote, but will the NEC and the union backers then create sufficient merry hell that he has to go on it? It's possible that his union backers are likewise appalled at his performance during the referendum and therefore will roll over. Also possible that the cohorts who signed up to the party for the last leadership contest will be disillusioned/apathetic and won't bother next time. REgaardless the scenario is not as simple as his PLP colleagues booting him off his perch. The Tories are renowned for their ability to put survival of the party (and their seats) above everything. There has rarely been a threat of them having a Michael Foot moment. so if the MPs believe BOJO is their best chance at the next election they might well vote him in. I just wonder whether the damage done with his colleagues, on top of not having a natural support base among MPs is too great. And if they are putting the good of the country first, do they really think he is the right person to lead negotiations in what is probably the most important next 2-2.5 years in our recent history ? His heart is not in doing the tough yards, he's a showman, and his colleagues know it. p.s. you could argue that Brexit was not just a Farage/Cameron/Osborne legacy, but equally an Ed Milliband legacy. His leadership rule changes bought in Corbyn, and... Can't disagree with much of that and love the idea that Brexit is due to Red Ed, some butterfly. I wonder though if PMship is more about getting the big decisions right rather than working jolly hard? I have respect for DC and will miss him, but I think that dilly dallying over airport expansion and calling the referendum are examples of big decisions that he got wrong. "With the announcement of Boris Island, Great Britain, now freed from the shackles of the EU, announces that it is open for free trade with the entire world" Maybe.
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