mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 14, 2014 2:32:14 GMT
These auto correct moments  - I blame me iPad mini and ageing eyesight! I wondered how you found the acute accent .... I should have guessed. Ctrl-Alt-e does the job nicely on my keyboard -- é 
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Post by chielamangus on Sept 14, 2014 10:46:42 GMT
No, it's not that I can't do it (I use it all the time) but I am always surprised whenever anyone British writes a foreign language correctly!
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329 
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 2, 2014 15:32:47 GMT
Update has been provided as promised. Another 2 weeks to refinance as property sale fell though. Turned down for a refinance through AC, amongst other suggestions. No issuing of THE LETTER as first charge holder unlikely to consent. May need another iron lung on this one Ton ⓉⓞⓃ  (No blue in the face smiley ) |
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 2, 2014 15:38:06 GMT
Update has been provided as promised. Another 2 weeks to refinance as property sale fell though. Turned down for a refinance through AC, amongst other suggestions. No issuing of THE LETTER as first charge holder unlikely to consent. May need another iron lung on this one Ton ⓉⓞⓃ (No blue in the face smiley ) I somehow managed to laugh in side my Iron lung when I read about the first way it was hoped to be paid off. This 'consent' business is confusing at best. davidricketts1 can someone explain some of the general principles around 1st and 2nd Charges?
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spyrogyra
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Post by spyrogyra on Oct 2, 2014 16:41:22 GMT
So why bother with second charges if they are so useless? Shouldn't there be talks held with the first charge holder before the loan was issued ?... Umm
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 2, 2014 16:46:33 GMT
Update has been provided as promised. Another 2 weeks to refinance as property sale fell though. Turned down for a refinance through AC, amongst other suggestions. No issuing of THE LETTER as first charge holder unlikely to consent. May need another iron lung on this one Ton ⓉⓞⓃ (No blue in the face smiley ) I somehow managed to laugh in side my Iron lung when I read about the first way it was hoped to be paid off. This 'consent' business is confusing at best. davidricketts1 can someone explain some of the general principles around 1st and 2nd Charges? I'm confused by this too, as it would appear to make holding a second charge meaningless. A question has been raised in the loan's Q&A... I've posted the above here so that we can discuss the issue raised. It's hard enough recovering from a defaulted second charge by selling the property when the first charge is up to date. If it's necessary to wait until the borrower defaults on the first charge as well, and starts running up substantial costs/fees to the first charge holder, then recovery by the second charge holder becomes even more difficult. For that matter, when the borrower's equity in the property is relatively small, as it appears to be here, how common is it for them to stop payments on the first charge as soon as enforcement action is started? In that case, by the time the property can be turned into proceeds the amount owing to the first charge holder -- including default interest, late fees, etc. -- will have increased significantly, making it quite difficult for the second charge holder to make a full recovery. I'm getting more and more uncomfortable with second charges. Is that rational?
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 2, 2014 16:55:43 GMT
There is some useful background on the subject of enforcing 2nd charges in this pdf from Strettons Chartered Suveyors.
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Post by batchoy on Oct 2, 2014 17:28:01 GMT
The other question that has not been answered is what has happened to the £1.2M that has a prominent place in the credit reports, does it still exist, is it ever likely to be paid or did it ever really exist in the first place?
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spyrogyra
Member of DD Central
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Post by spyrogyra on Oct 3, 2014 13:50:58 GMT
There is some useful background on the subject of enforcing 2nd charges in this pdf from Strettons Chartered Suveyors. Indeed very useful and should be addressed to AC team. It is a purely logical thought that second charges must have some weight and the statement about the consent is simply wrong.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 3, 2014 14:28:41 GMT
There is some useful background on the subject of enforcing 2nd charges in this pdf from Strettons Chartered Suveyors. Indeed very useful and should be addressed to AC team. It is a purely logical thought that second charges must have some weight and the statement about the consent is simply wrong. I think where AC's talking about consent is basically saying will they work with us or against us. It seems we can call in out marker here but if they don't work with us, i.e. consent, we could stitch ourselves up. But this is guess work on my part; AC need to make a comment, but how can they! They're right in the middle of dealing with the situation so if they comment they're showing their hand.
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Post by andrewholgate on Oct 3, 2014 14:29:29 GMT
There are some truths in that document. Most lenders have a clause in the document that states if the borrower defaults on facilities with other lenders (especially where cross charges are in place) then they too can default the loan. In this case, AC can default and appoint an LPA receiver, with the first charge holder consenting to who the receiver is.
The recoveries go Costs, 1st charge, 2nd charge, post dated second charge etc. The further down the ladder you are, the increasing LTV and the risk of not recovering your funds is higher.
A
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 3, 2014 14:43:09 GMT
There are some truths in that document. Most lenders have a clause in the document that states if the borrower defaults on facilities with other lenders (especially where cross charges are in place) then they too can default the loan. In this case, AC can default and appoint an LPA receiver, with the first charge holder consenting to who the receiver is. The recoveries go Costs, 1st charge, 2nd charge, post dated second charge etc. The further down the ladder you are, the increasing LTV and the risk of not recovering your funds is higher. A So Andrew can you explain what you mean by 'consent' when in these situations? Thanks Or perhaps davidricketts1 can?
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Post by andrewholgate on Oct 4, 2014 10:41:20 GMT
In this case I would contact the 1st charge holder, inform them of the default and say we are appointing LPA Receivers. I would then say we are appointing XYZ as the LPA, do you have any objections? They might say no, go ahead, or they might say we would prefer ABC instead. What they cannot do is tell us we cannot appoint, we have the right to, but they can choose who the receiver is.
In most cases we would use a well known firm who are likely to be on the main lenders panels anyway.
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Oct 4, 2014 15:43:55 GMT
In this case I would contact the 1st charge holder, inform them of the default and say we are appointing LPA Receivers. I would then say we are appointing XYZ as the LPA, do you have any objections? They might say no, go ahead, or they might say we would prefer ABC instead. What they cannot do is tell us we cannot appoint, we have the right to, but they can choose who the receiver is. In most cases we would use a well known firm who are likely to be on the main lenders panels anyway. Fair enough andrewholgate, I'm glad to hear it but that isn't what went out on email and the update on web site. Rather than saying it wasn't cost effective, or sensible with regards to time scales it said
"Whilst we could demand repayment and seek to enforce our security this would require consent from the first chargeholder which we are unlikely to obtain".
Might be worth arranging for an addendum comment to be added to the recent activity update to inform lenders who don't have the benefit of this forum. Otherwise it could be very damaging to the chances of any future loans relying on second charges.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 4, 2014 20:24:49 GMT
In this case I would contact the 1st charge holder, inform them of the default and say we are appointing LPA Receivers. I would then say we are appointing XYZ as the LPA, do you have any objections? They might say no, go ahead, or they might say we would prefer ABC instead. What they cannot do is tell us we cannot appoint, we have the right to, but they can choose who the receiver is. In most cases we would use a well known firm who are likely to be on the main lenders panels anyway. Fair enough andrewholgate, I'm glad to hear it but that isn't what went out on email and the update on web site. Rather than saying it wasn't cost effective, or sensible with regards to time scales it said
"Whilst we could demand repayment and seek to enforce our security this would require consent from the first chargeholder which we are unlikely to obtain".
Might be worth arranging for an addendum comment to be added to the recent activity update to inform lenders who don't have the benefit of this forum. Otherwise it could be very damaging to the chances of any future loans relying on second charges.
I take AH and the Update on the loan to be saying that the 1st charge holder may want his own guy in and turn away our own Receiver so that they can be very slow at enforcing the security or do it in such a way that they get the benefit (all within the law of course), i.e. they don't consent and we effectively hand it over to the other lender to sort out. It seems to me that AC are just using 'Bankers Language' Ltv say don't do that anyway, unless we're prepared for a loss.
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- I blame me iPad mini and ageing eyesight!
(No blue in the face smiley )
