aju
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Post by aju on Aug 14, 2017 13:40:54 GMT
I never thought of checking that, probably won't stack up on my defaults though as apart from the 2 recents in Plus they are all PreSG (30 in my case). In the case I mentioned above the 2 defaulters had paid interest already though.
I did get a bit of a shock when I checked out the larger number of defaulters in Classic over 40+ in there but its less obvious as they are being cleared by the SG fund. I'm expecting a much bigger hit with defaulters than I have been used to so far as my Plus lending was only 10% of the total lending now I'm in ISAcore where in my case there is some cover form SG but its 75% less so far. Ten default hit will be much higher than that I have experienced so far.
I really liked the old system where I selected the loans and worked out the cover levels myself but i guess with the amounts I am lending now it would be too slow and onerous to do it that way.
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Post by BrianC on Aug 14, 2017 21:32:05 GMT
Great month for me again as we approach the half way point of the month.
Interest £56.87
Defaults £73.73 (8 separate defaulters)
Earnings -£16.86
Plus is about 80% of my lending. I'm withdrawing money as quick as I can! R.I.P. Zopa ⚰️
I assume if a previous defaulter ever pays anything it's an extra line in the monthly statement? If that's the case I've never received a penny from a past defaulted. Great recovery work Zopa. Well done 👏🏻
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johni
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Post by johni on Aug 14, 2017 23:17:03 GMT
Not necessarily sometimes people can be in arrears for the first 2/3 months until payments get aligned. Check the comments fields as well as the arrears amounts. Also check the status column if its set to Collections it could be of concern. I've just checked mine and I have 3 that are new loans but they seem to be slipped or mismatched initial payments as they are still marked withdrawn, hopefully they will level out. If they are showing defaults then it's a bit more of an issue but still not damaging. Also you should check if they are marked as SG in Classic, even in ISAcore they can be SG protected. If they are then you don't need to worry about them as they will be settled eventually by the SG fund (Well that's the theory at the moment ;-)) I'm sure you already know, but just in case, loans in arrears have to wait at least 4 payment periods (months) before the loan is marked as defaulted. Hopefully yours are not as bad as they look. In my case I have mostly old Pre-SG defaults and most are still paying, slowly but still paying. Thats not to say that this time arround they will fair better or worse though. edit: Oops the above is more general I've just noticed you said they were in Plus so the SG bits above don't count. The status and comments field though do count.
The one other thing to be aware of is rate of default - I have found the statements to be quite helpful in showing the default hits. Mine have been quite good to me so far as I said and my gains in any month are higher than the defaults - they have been in drips for me so far so I guess i've been quite lucky.
I've got 2 defaults in 177 loans in plus - 1 is in difficulty and the other has made one initial payment since the start in Jan and has just gone to default last month. I have 5 collections but 3 of them look like they are just misaligned after missing one or recovering completely. The other may not get better. My Plus lending started around June last year. Each persons lending experience will be different but hope this helpsHi Thanks for this. There are 3 additional loans that are new but over a month old so I ignored these. I started last June in plus.
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 14, 2017 23:36:06 GMT
All my defaults that have recovered payments since the default show as bad debt recovered in statements tables
I checked to see if any of my defaults actually paid something last month and the first one on the list had an entry of
[25/07/2017] Partial payment received.
so yes they do show in commented too. You could check in the statements as well. One thing to be wary of though is that if the payments are too low then not everyone gets a payment in a given repayment cycle but still get the comment. I have a few of those that have paid according to comments but have a zero entry in the statements table. Apparently if you are not paid in one month then the next collection, if enough, will be shared accordingly across as many investors as possible until all are paid equally.
I also checked in my statements file - its huge (over 150,000 records) but I could have just loaded the july one - in fact my first defaulter on the list paid 7p capital back in July has but paid no interest since 2012. They have just been paying regularly capital payments but still have 1.54 to pay before the capital is returned. Having said that they have paid over £2.50 in interest before the default date. The rate was 11.4% in B60 and was due to end Nov 2014 but will take nearly 2 more years to fully pay back the capital outstanding at the same rate.
Despite the recovery of 16p interest I could not find it in any of my reported defaults statements data so not sure if its an error in my sheets or an error in zopa or not something I can monitor from statements data alone.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 15, 2017 9:52:00 GMT
Great month for me again as we approach the half way point of the month. Interest £56.87 Defaults £73.73 (8 separate defaulters) Earnings -£16.86 Plus is about 80% of my lending. I'm withdrawing money as quick as I can! R.I.P. Zopa ⚰️ I assume if a previous defaulter ever pays anything it's an extra line in the monthly statement? If that's the case I've never received a penny from a past defaulted. Great recovery work Zopa. Well done 👏🏻 Just for contrast, my month to date interest £236 defaults £47 repayments from defaults £2 earnings £191 So on course for say £380 this month, and spot on target. Can't get enough of zopa +. Differences can only be down to investment levels I guess, but I do wish Zopa would explain some of these massive discrepancies.
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 15, 2017 10:56:11 GMT
interest: £52.08 £63.45
defaults: £9.85 £7.68
repayments from defaults: £.35 £0.00
earnings: £47.93 £55.77
I've added in some additional numbers to make it clearer default to interest wise. The 1st number is my July figures and the 2nd number is Mrs aju's. Mrs aju seems to have faired better than me this month default wise. Mine seems to be similar to ashtondav but with considerably different book sizes.
I'm happy with this and looking over the last few months I seem to get one new default a month as a worse case scenario. I would point out though that for my main book my Plus to classic ratio is about 10%. Mrs aju is also 10% but recently I added another large amount to her classic that makes her about 5% in Plus. The reason for this was to get the Sg cover rather than push it to ISA (shes not a tax payer so I deemed the cover more useful than slightly improved interest rate ).
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Post by BrianC on Aug 15, 2017 12:18:35 GMT
Great month for me again as we approach the half way point of the month. Interest £56.87 Defaults £73.73 (8 separate defaulters) Earnings -£16.86 Plus is about 80% of my lending. I'm withdrawing money as quick as I can! R.I.P. Zopa ⚰️ I assume if a previous defaulter ever pays anything it's an extra line in the monthly statement? If that's the case I've never received a penny from a past defaulted. Great recovery work Zopa. Well done 👏🏻 Just for contrast, my month to date interest £236 defaults £47 repayments from defaults £2 earnings £191 So on course for say £380 this month, and spot on target. Can't get enough of zopa +. Differences can only be down to investment levels I guess, but I do wish Zopa would explain some of these massive discrepancies. When did you invest in plus? Most of mine went in between September and Feb if I recall correctly so I'm not benefitting from any loans being within first 4 months so not defaulting. I'm guessing the time of highest defaults is 6-8 months in maybe which is where a lot of my plus loans are.
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 15, 2017 14:16:32 GMT
I know that question wasn't to me but my Plus investment started as follows
New loans
Start: 13/5/2016
All Lent: 15/6/2016
I have not withdrawn anything from Plus and relend in Plus is on.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 15, 2017 17:02:13 GMT
Just for contrast, my month to date interest £236 defaults £47 repayments from defaults £2 earnings £191 So on course for say £380 this month, and spot on target. Can't get enough of zopa +. Differences can only be down to investment levels I guess, but I do wish Zopa would explain some of these massive discrepancies. When did you invest in plus? Most of mine went in between September and Feb if I recall correctly so I'm not benefitting from any loans being within first 4 months so not defaulting. I'm guessing the timLe of highest defaults is 6-8 months in maybe which is where a lot of my plus loans are. Since plus started i have been investing lump sums on a relatively frequent basis, up to my current £35,000. (The figures quoted above are my total earnings on a total zopa investment of about £70,000.)
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Post by wyndstryke on Aug 15, 2017 17:48:03 GMT
Since plus started i have been investing lump sums on a relatively frequent basis, up to my current £35,000. (The figures quoted above are my total earnings on a total zopa investment of about £70,000.) How well diversified are you in plus? I wonder if this is the difference between the people experiencing losses versus the people who are on track. Only having a few hundred loans probably isn't enough.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 15, 2017 18:21:46 GMT
This thread could be an example of negative confirmation bias or the squeeky wheel gets the most attention. People most likely to post are those who have made a loss, people who are happy with the product dont care. For me personally my losses on Zopa Plus are an early warning sign of the massive credit bubble we are all living in is starting to burst - but as with all early warning signs it might just be random noise.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 15, 2017 19:46:44 GMT
About 3,000 loans.
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 16, 2017 8:21:46 GMT
Since plus started i have been investing lump sums on a relatively frequent basis, up to my current £35,000. (The figures quoted above are my total earnings on a total zopa investment of about £70,000.) How well diversified are you in plus? I wonder if this is the difference between the people experiencing losses versus the people who are on track. Only having a few hundred loans probably isn't enough. Im very well diversified in plus for the very reason you mention - better than 1%. At the time of lending in Plus i didnt understand that, but fortunately I only lent 1060 so got the normal 1%, now i do and have tried and still am trying to maintain better than 1% in the ISA side. One thing I also realised and confirmed with Zopa a while back was that if you lent <2000 you could actually get the autolend/diversification down to 0.5% so thats what I did. Problem was it lent too slowly so I wait now until it gets below 1000 in queue and add the next 1000. Its is very slow still, especially the last few days but it will mean that I am still well diversified on the zopa platform and lending as fast as I can. Of course if zopa went down, highly unlikely, I might have a different experience as zopa is my only P2P platform I'm happy to lend on. Edit: Lending seems very slow in Core - Just noticed that my last investment took 4 days to go from New Money to Matching which lines up with zopa last report - I think!
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Post by BrianC on Aug 16, 2017 16:59:14 GMT
I don't think it should be lenders responsibility to diversify in plus. I put in £14,000 in daily instalments of £100 to £250 to ensure there was never too much waiting to be lent at any time and to diversify. It didn't work for me. I've had rubbish returns and have been withdrawing all repayments for 3 months now. If Zopa are lending our money in too big chunks that's their bad not ours. Just another reason I've lost all faith in Zopa.
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 16, 2017 23:17:10 GMT
So did you lend everything at £10 or less per loan and its still hitting high defaults on your investment?.
I believe Zopa attempts to lend at 1% diversification for any level of lending money in the matching queue at the time it is topped up from the new money queue.
So my understanding and experience so far for each product - Plus, Core, Classic.
If you lend the whole £14000 at once then you will theoretically get loans of 1% 140, if you lend at £2000 chunks then you will get £20 loans. Lets say you lend at <2000 you will get £10 chunks. So far so good. Except zopa model is based on what is in the queue at any lend point as its topped up from the new queue.
So in my case say recently I lent £1990 (<2000 to force £10 lots) in my first chunk to CoreISA and when it got down to about £1050 left in the matching queue I thought okay it will spend a little time in the "New Money" so I transfered another £1000 in. Trouble is I hadn't banked on the new money queue being quite so quick to transfer to the "Matching queue" and thus meaning I had £2050 in matching which sadly flicked on the £20 lend level. I spotted it after about 10 £20 loans were made and withdrew the outstanding money to holding to stop anymore £20 loans. I relent it to Plus immediately but now it was at £1950 and I was expecting it to sit waiting for a few days after all it was new money again. It waited about 5 hours before it started lending again and this time back at my comfortable £10 levels.
I agree it's not really obvious but I did at least spend some time checking with Zopa about the lending levels prior to the new ISA coming on stream, it was this discussion that told me about the <2000 trick. I did mention it a bit back I guess not everyone saw it. Even knowing that I still got caught as the lending queues are a bit erratic at times but in my case I believe it was my own fault for trying to preempt queue times.
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