will
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Post by will on Jun 9, 2017 7:34:32 GMT
Not a great result IMO. A weak and unstable government is not going to help the economy or brexit.
Hey Ho!
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jo
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dead
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Post by jo on Jun 9, 2017 7:56:20 GMT
Think it's been the turn of the incumbents (Con, SNP) to feel the pain this time around.
Absent the improbable appearance of Sinn Fein in parliament, May will probably end up around one short of a technical majority (after you discount the speaker and his 2 deputies).
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jun 9, 2017 8:57:29 GMT
what a farce ... although I voted conservative I cant help but feel they deserve this. Triggering A30 and only THEN calling an election is like saying to the voters, right we got you where we want you, now you MUST vote for us. What a miscalculation, almost as big as David Cameron's - just shows tories will always put power and their party ahead of the best interests of the country. a slim majority was actually the best case having regard to the 52/48 ref result - as it ensured more accountability over negotiations rather than the whim of a few hard right tories doing as they please.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 9, 2017 9:26:15 GMT
what a farce ... although I voted conservative I cant help but feel they deserve this. Triggering A30 and only THEN calling an election is like saying to the voters, right we got you where we want you, now you MUST vote for us. What a miscalculation, almost as big as David Cameron's - just shows tories will always put power and their party ahead of the best interests of the country. a slim majority was actually the best case having regard to the 52/48 ref result - as it ensured more accountability over negotiations rather than the whim of a few hard right tories doing as they please. Of course one theory being bandied around at the time TM called the election was that she was worried that the thin majority meant she could be held to ransom by the "extreme" wing of her party, and that this was an intended exercise to make it easier for her to make compromises which the "hard brexit" side would not be able to stomach. I never quite bought that, because in the specific case of brexit itself she would have been able to pretty much count on other parliamentary support outside of the party to support 'softer' (whatever those terms really mean). The Tories used to be viewed as the party that could be trusted with the economy: with the current conservative induced chaos I think many would view them as having lost that mantle.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 9, 2017 9:26:26 GMT
I am not a big fan of the tories even though I tend to vote for them. In my opinion they made a miscalculation assuming that the average person in this country could grasp the importance of this election for the future of the country. The fact that the same people who voted for UKIP decided to vote for a hung parliament during the brexit negotiations says it all. The only people who seem to grasp what is at stake are the Scottish, but it has always been said they are the canniest of the bunch  |
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 9, 2017 10:13:31 GMT
If only everything was as reliable as a Farage resurrection!  |
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 9, 2017 10:59:43 GMT
This on the bbc website:
Asked at a news conference whether the Article 50 negotiations should be extended in light of UK election result, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker replies: "Before negotiations can be extended, they first need to start."
The man at least has a sense of humour.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jun 9, 2017 11:38:04 GMT
This on the bbc website: Asked at a news conference whether the Article 50 negotiations should be extended in light of UK election result, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker replies: "Before negotiations can be extended, they first need to start." The man at least has a sense of humour. He must be in a very humorous mood ... wont have to negotiate with a bl**dy difficult women - or possibly any one at all at this rate got to love the german comment saying "we wont comment to be respectful and polite" - in other words you are a mess
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 9, 2017 13:43:03 GMT
Oh come on Europe, the UK is not so bad compared to what is going down across the pond right now. Imagine if the the head of MI5 in an open commons committee hearing point blank accusing the PM of lying, discrediting the UK security services and trying to sway his or her treatment of an ex government employee of what at the very least is are criminal acts if not treason against the state. I just cannot believe the US stock market is keeping its nerve over all that is going on, every day I'm looking for the "US Markets Crash' headline. It could be one awfully big train wreck sometime soon. JMHO |
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scc
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Post by scc on Jun 9, 2017 13:49:51 GMT
One of the most entertaining election nights in many a year. A couple of fine "Portillo moments", Labour bizarrely able to treat a defeat as a win, and the incumbents (Tory & SNP) get a blooming good kicking.
With a bit of luck the political classes will spend so much time jockeying for position and arguing they'll leave the rest of us alone for a few months.
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Post by dan1 on Jun 9, 2017 15:21:55 GMT
I do love trying to deconstruct election results, especially with the benefit of hindsight It was clear that TM called the election to achieve an increased majority and extending the next parliament well beyond 2 years from triggering Article 50. She was no doubt encouraged by the polling, the state of the main opposition (unelectable leader of a party more likely to split than lead a government), and predictable collapse of the UKIP vote. She should have taken note of previous snap elections, it's not a pretty sight. In my opinion this election was all about Brexit. She's pursuing a so-called hard Brexit, which alienates the 48% of voters who turned out for the referendum and possibly another 10-20% (my guess) of those who voted in favour. She went after the working class vote, who voted in large numbers for Brexit but, a proportion of working class leavers will never vote Conservative no matter what she offered. TM has, quite rightly, ruled out a 2nd referendum yet this is precisely how a large proportion of the electorate voted. This election mobilised the young to come and and vote, and they voted against her vision of a hard brexit. There were relatively minor contributing factors such as her refusal to attend the face to face debates despite making TM the focus of the Conservative campaign (where were Johnson, Hammond, Hunt, etc?). Then there was the apparent unity of the Labour campaign, quite shocking given the previous couple of years of in-fighting. The manifesto may not have 'the longest suicide note in history' but who conceived the idea of the 'dementia tax' and taking away free lunches from young kids? Forget the rights or wrongs of those two actual policies, they can only be perceived as mean, or dare I say 'nasty'. One final thought, I dread to think how much worse it would have been for the Conservatives if TM had been facing either of the Millibands? Perhaps she wouldn't have been foolish enough to have called the election if either were leading the Labour party. Just my thoughts... |
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 9, 2017 15:44:35 GMT
I do love trying to deconstruct election results, especially with the benefit of hindsight I think your analysis is very good. They have made a massive miscalculation regarding the nature of the electorate in this country, although I would like to point out it is very unlikely there is such a thing as a "Soft Brexit". The EU has far too much to lose from allowing the UK to negotiate their position in a reasonable fashion, their only option is to make an example of us to scare the other members into not trying the same thing. The EU seems to fall back on bully boy tactics when any of the member states vote for something they dont like. Although I am not against the concept of the EU what it has become is corrupt and totalitarian in nature, and this is highlighted by the position the UK now finds itself in. Although I am was not enirely sure Brexit was the right thing given the amount of instability in the World at the moment y - I do believe that now we are on this course we need a strong government to negotiate on our behalf. What really amazes me are these morons in marginal seats who voted UKIP (and I assuming brexit also) then voted labour for a hung parliament.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 9, 2017 16:02:07 GMT
I do love trying to deconstruct election results, especially with the benefit of hindsight I think your analysis is very good. They have made a massive miscalculation regarding the nature of the electorate in this country, although I would like to point out it is very unlikely there is such a thing as a "Soft Brexit". The EU has far too much to lose from allowing the UK to negotiate their position in a reasonable fashion, their only option is to make an example of us to scare the other members into not trying the same thing. The EU seems to fall back on bully boy tactics when any of the member states vote for something they dont like. Although I am not against the concept of the EU what it has become is corrupt and totalitarian in nature, and this is highlighted by the position the UK now finds itself in. Although I am was not enirely sure Brexit was the right thing given the amount of instability in the World at the moment y - I do believe that now we are on this course we need a strong government to negotiate on our behalf. What really amazes me are these morons in marginal seats who voted UKIP (and I assuming brexit also) then voted labour for a hung parliament. Yep, ABSOLUTELY, Auditors duly refusing to sign off their accounts for, what is it, 17 years ....................... seventeen years!! 
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 9, 2017 16:14:09 GMT
The problem for the Conservatives was that, with the exception of in Scotland where they were spot on, they ran a very poor campaign and Labour ran a brilliant campaign, I'm not sure who was pulling all the strings but good job.
TM seems to have behaved very naively, working out what you believe to be the right policy and then advocating it regardless of how popular it will be is not the thing to do in an election campaign. Making the winter champagne allowance means tested, removing the pensioners triple lock, and rationalising old age care so that folk at home and folk in a care home pay the same were rational ideas but not vote winners and gave the opposition easy targets.
JC on the other hand picked off every interest group one by one and offered them a reward for voting Labour, leaving the real nuclear weapon of Land Value Tax quietly hidden away deep in the Manifesto. JC also performed very well and espoused his policies in the same way that he praised those of Chavez a few years ago.
The other aspect that was very noticeable was that easily distributable and readily digestible new media was used very effectively to attack and ridicule the Conservatives and very little against Labour.
However, it seems to me that the worst political decision may not have been made by TM calling the election but by Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham et al failing to come back in to the fold, avoiding the need to over promote poor Diane Abbott, and together actually winning instead of leaving JC with his delusions of victory.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 9, 2017 16:25:23 GMT
JC on the other hand picked off every interest group one by one and offered them a reward for voting Labour, leaving the real nuclear weapon of Land Value Tax quietly hidden away deep in the Manifesto. JC also performed very well and espoused his policies in the same way that he praised those of Chavez a few years ago. I would like to add that JC's promises were things he could not deliver without bankrupting the country. A big factor in this election is TMs personality or lack of it. Whatever people say about JC he has a fairly likeable "Citizen Smith" type personality. Although it would probably be the end of the country if he ever got his hands on the reigns I believe he genuinely means well and is concerned about the issues people in this country face. I would bet a fairly tidy sum that if someone with personality like Borris had been leader of the tories the result would have been different.
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