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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 10:55:27 GMT
Unfortunately I think we all want to be green but nobody wants to change. I believe this is what's coming out of Cop 26 with many countries refusing to budge. Maybe greta was right. Too much talking and no action. Admittedly I'm no better, 10 year old diesel car or is that a good thing as I'm not continually replacing stuff? Doing something is critical to implement change
I decided to stop driving (down to once every 3 weeks now) and cycle or walk everywhere (stomach has benefited) Insulate the house (so nice to wake up to a naturally warm house) Solar cells, so nice to have my expenditure in energy roughly balance my income in energy Car is 3 cylinder one 7 years old and sub 25k miles on it. Since it doesn't do anything.... no realy need to replace No dishwasher (oooo the debates) More and more food bought from markets and dry goods stores (storing the dry goods in what??)
Far less meat Make Christmas presents don't buy them
Each of these decisions takes just a little step to start and then gentle pressure to improve
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Oct 26, 2021 11:26:19 GMT
The meat is a good point and not just beef
One part of my extended family has a 20lb plus turkey, and a large joint of beef on Christmas day, with a large gammon joint for sandwiches then they have lamb on boxing day. there are usually only 6 or 7 of them for Christmas
last year the turkey was thrown out after 3 days with not even one breast finished.
I Would add to that that the family opposite me threw out a whole bin bag full of food over Christmas
In days gone by shops were shut for several days over Christmas, Now many supermarkets open on boxing day, yet I still see people buying 4-5 loaves of bread etc
this sort of waste has to stop
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Oct 26, 2021 11:44:28 GMT
None of these green initiatives will work unless they are more efficient and save money long term. Even on a domestic level, these decisions will be decided at the polls.. being green might be a winner now, but once the cost to taxpayer is quantified a bit better don't doubt people will be put off and parties won't risk it
The bottom line is we have too many people on earth now. And if we do things more efficiently (e.g all become vegans and eat the most resource-conserving food) then the outcome will be a higher population until that too becomes unsustainable. Unfortunately we are at or close to the point where resource constraints become an unavoidable natural limiting factor for population count
Interestingly since leaving London I don't know any vegetarians or vegans at all in Cumbria. So that fad has barely migrated a few hundred miles in almost a decade, I don't expect it to become global anytime soon. Not to mention by not eating meat here you are shunning your neighbours (and in our case a friend and tenant of our land) which is a bit more personal than not buying supermarket Dutch pork ...!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 11:47:45 GMT
Here is sunny Yorkshire there is a growing Vegetarian demand. Also lots of people just have meat-off-days. "Baby steps" as they say.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 26, 2021 11:55:59 GMT
The meat is a good point and not just beef One part of my extended family has a 20lb plus turkey, and a large joint of beef on Christmas day, with a large gammon joint for sandwiches then they have lamb on boxing day. there are usually only 6 or 7 of them for Christmas last year the turkey was thrown out after 3 days with not even one breast finished. this sort of waste has to stop Absolutely appalling behaviour to waste a breast: you'd never get me doing that
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 26, 2021 12:00:50 GMT
The meat is a good point and not just beef One part of my extended family has a 20lb plus turkey, and a large joint of beef on Christmas day, with a large gammon joint for sandwiches then they have lamb on boxing day. there are usually only 6 or 7 of them for Christmas last year the turkey was thrown out after 3 days with not even one breast finished. this sort of waste has to stop I think people are (slowly) coming around to the idea of stopping waste even if part of it is based on cost or going Green etc.But it will be a slow process i.e if insulate Britain got their wish and every house where i lived was insulated then that would be a start and i would assume they would be happy.But changes in life mean most of the houses around here are now lit up longer and in more rooms then they were 20 years ago due to the family no longer being together but spread around the home using tech/gaming or streaming so there is an uptick in energy there. Yes bulbs/batteries & Green energy are making a difference but how much energy worldwide would be saved if people were not charging their phones/tablets/laptops etc every day by giving up not watching cat videos on Youtube,updating social media every 2 minutes (or looking at forums ) or browsing ebay and a million other things It always seems weird when say the BBC do a program on plastic or energy and then say stream it on a mainly plastic device using energy or Netflix or Amazon do a program on the same subject which you stream via a plastic streaming stick of which a new model comes out every year As you and Bobo said we can all do our bit but the people who want the whole industrial revolution genie put back in the bottle within a few years might be asking to much and will probably be led by business & entrepreneurs rather then govt's
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 26, 2021 12:03:43 GMT
The meat is a good point and not just beef One part of my extended family has a 20lb plus turkey, and a large joint of beef on Christmas day, with a large gammon joint for sandwiches then they have lamb on boxing day. there are usually only 6 or 7 of them for Christmas last year the turkey was thrown out after 3 days with not even one breast finished. this sort of waste has to stop Absolutely appalling behaviour to waste a breast: you'd never get me doing that ooh err missus
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 26, 2021 12:06:34 GMT
Here is sunny Yorkshire there is a growing Vegetarian demand. Also lots of people just have meat-off-days. "Baby steps" as they say. We are down to probably 2-3 days a week which include meat - assuming I'm allowed to include fish in the no-meat day [I'm probably about to get criticised for that thought. in fact I think the last 7 days was one meat day, and that was trivially sized amounts (basically use up some bits from freezer + veg stuff going into a pasta sauce). Also those 2-3 days is likely to be at least one which is not red meat/ruminant (i.e. chicken). I've just had my lunch which was based around a vegan (Quorn) pasty (+ chips and beans, yum yum). That's a very conscious choice. All of which - baby steps - is why I'm anti an anti plastic recycling message. Oh, and round here, there is little excuse why the vast bulk of plastic can't be recycled. Our local Tesco's is now operating soft & film plastic recycling. So given that virtually all other goes into our doorstep collection, and now that the local tip also recycles things like plastic flower pots (which can't go into doorstep) then the amount of plastic going into our refuse (or indeed any other refuse) is extremely small. That doesn't mean reduce & reuse aren't also the first thought.
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 26, 2021 12:18:49 GMT
why don't eco warriors campaign about the amount of super glue containers used worldwide every year?
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Oct 26, 2021 12:25:01 GMT
But changes in life mean most of the houses around here are now lit up longer and in more rooms then they were 20 years ago due to the family no longer being together but spread around the home using tech/gaming or streaming so there is an uptick in energy there. Yes bulbs/batteries & Green energy are making a difference but how much energy worldwide would be saved if people were not charging their phones/tablets/laptops etc every day by giving up not watching cat videos on Youtube,updating social media every 2 minutes (or looking at forums :) ) or browsing ebay and a million other things I found an old lightbulb in a cupboard the other day - 200W! So long as my house isn't using the dishwasher, oven, washing machine, or charging the EV then that single bulb alone would be +50% of the entire house's "resting" use which includes several computers and 3x freezers (one is a fridge-freezer). Modern day lightbulbs and phone charging are a rouning error however you look at it - compared to 20 years ago a family all using their own phone in their own LED-lit room is an huge inmprovement than a CRT television ina single room lit with 200W lightbulbs!
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Oct 26, 2021 12:35:41 GMT
None of these green initiatives will work unless they are more efficient and save money long term. Even on a domestic level, these decisions will be decided at the polls.. being green might be a winner now, but once the cost to taxpayer is quantified a bit better don't doubt people will be put off and parties won't risk it The bottom line is we have too many people on earth now. And if we do things more efficiently (e.g all become vegans and eat the most resource-conserving food) then the outcome will be a higher population until that too becomes unsustainable. Unfortunately we are at or close to the point where resource constraints become an unavoidable natural limiting factor for population count Interestingly since leaving London I don't know any vegetarians or vegans at all in Cumbria. So that fad has barely migrated a few hundred miles in almost a decade, I don't expect it to become global anytime soon. Not to mention by not eating meat here you are shunning your neighbours (and in our case a friend and tenant of our land) which is a bit more personal than not buying supermarket Dutch pork ...! And Chris Packham and co are not helping with this rewilding agenda. If We all go vegan we need more land put to agriculture not less Where I am we have flocks of sheep wandering around, the land is scrubby and mostly steep hills so unsuitable for vegetables etc. So raising sheep is sensible use of the land. But the vegan lobby want us to eat imported fruit and veg etc which are of course doused in artificial fertilisers, which of course raises the issue of soil, if you want soil to remain productive you need to feed it I can't produce enough compost to feed my allotment, we are supplied by a local farmer with his used bedding etc which then produces the most wonderful compost. The alternative is to use ever increasing amounts of artificial fertilisers most of which come from oil or gas, of course these tend to run off into water courses and damage the eco system and produce alga blooms ( and yes I do know some farmers "accidentally" allow slurry into rivers )
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 26, 2021 12:54:03 GMT
...but how much energy worldwide would be saved if people were not charging their phones/tablets/laptops etc every day by giving up not watching cat videos on Youtube,updating social media every 2 minutes (or looking at forums ) or browsing ebay and a million other things It always seems weird when say the BBC do a program on plastic or energy and then say stream it on a mainly plastic device using energy or Netflix or Amazon do a program on the same subject which you stream via a plastic streaming stick of which a new model comes out every year The actual power consumption of devices is minimal. A battery in a top-line new phone is about 12Wh, giving about 11hrs of claimed battery life - just over one watt...
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 26, 2021 13:16:37 GMT
...but how much energy worldwide would be saved if people were not charging their phones/tablets/laptops etc every day by giving up not watching cat videos on Youtube,updating social media every 2 minutes (or looking at forums ) or browsing ebay and a million other things It always seems weird when say the BBC do a program on plastic or energy and then say stream it on a mainly plastic device using energy or Netflix or Amazon do a program on the same subject which you stream via a plastic streaming stick of which a new model comes out every year The actual power consumption of devices is minimal. A battery in a top-line new phone is about 12Wh, giving about 11hrs of claimed battery life - just over one watt... Would agree about usage and battery life and i did mention the improvements - but my point was if you times that usage by the billions of devices worldwide that were not around 15 - 20 years ago then we are negating some of the improvements somewhat (and the fact every 9/12 months a "new" topline phone comes out)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 13:17:15 GMT
The upside of moving away from meat is that the amount of land you need actually reduces and the amount of fertiliser you need reduces, like a virtual circle.
Normally about now the sheep farmer asks about what to raise on their terrible hillsides. Seems fine either trees, sheep, solar panals or wine vines (in years to come). The slightly crazy option of growing solar on flat fields is ...... odd. By friends rent out a flat field for solar and get paid to keep the grass down which they do with sheep.
"But it will change the vista" I hear you cry. Well when you cut down the trees that were there before it changed it.
Less meat means less input and less pollution all over.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 13:19:18 GMT
why don't eco warriors campaign about the amount of super glue containers used worldwide every year? Do you have numbers on this?
How does it compare to say containers of "my little pony" or christmas decorations?
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