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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 13:20:45 GMT
The meat is a good point and not just beef One part of my extended family has a 20lb plus turkey, and a large joint of beef on Christmas day, with a large gammon joint for sandwiches then they have lamb on boxing day. there are usually only 6 or 7 of them for Christmas last year the turkey was thrown out after 3 days with not even one breast finished. this sort of waste has to stop I think people are (slowly) coming around to the idea of stopping waste even if part of it is based on cost or going Green etc.But it will be a slow process i.e if insulate Britain got their wish and every house where i lived was insulated then that would be a start and i would assume they would be happy.But changes in life mean most of the houses around here are now lit up longer and in more rooms then they were 20 years ago due to the family no longer being together but spread around the home using tech/gaming or streaming so there is an uptick in energy there. Yes bulbs/batteries & Green energy are making a difference but how much energy worldwide would be saved if people were not charging their phones/tablets/laptops etc every day by giving up not watching cat videos on Youtube,updating social media every 2 minutes (or looking at forums ) or browsing ebay and a million other things It always seems weird when say the BBC do a program on plastic or energy and then say stream it on a mainly plastic device using energy or Netflix or Amazon do a program on the same subject which you stream via a plastic streaming stick of which a new model comes out every year As you and Bobo said we can all do our bit but the people who want the whole industrial revolution genie put back in the bottle within a few years might be asking to much and will probably be led by business & entrepreneurs rather then govt's No putting the genie back is crazy, but it doesn't mean we have to have all the c@ p along with most of the benefits
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Post by wildlife2 on Oct 26, 2021 13:23:13 GMT
"We are supplied by a local farmer with his used bedding etc which then produces the most wonderful compost" Cotton sheets and wool blankets?
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 26, 2021 13:31:55 GMT
why don't eco warriors campaign about the amount of super glue containers used worldwide every year? Do you have numbers on this?
How does it compare to say containers of "my little pony" or christmas decorations?
A bit hard to stick yourself to the road with a Xmas bauble!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 26, 2021 13:35:19 GMT
The actual power consumption of devices is minimal. A battery in a top-line new phone is about 12Wh, giving about 11hrs of claimed battery life - just over one watt... Would agree about usage and battery life and i did mention the improvements - but my point was if you times that usage by the billions of devices worldwide that were not around 15 - 20 years ago then we are negating some of the improvements somewhat (and the fact every 9/12 months a "new" topline phone comes out) More than compensated by all the improvements in efficiency elsewhere... Total electricity consumption in the UK has fallen by ~15% in the last two decades, despite all those extra devices, server rooms, electric cars... OTOH, LED bulbs etc etc...
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KoR_Wraith
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Wet wipes
Oct 26, 2021 13:37:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by KoR_Wraith on Oct 26, 2021 13:37:34 GMT
Indeed, I believe a typical phone uses less than £2 of electricity over an entire year.
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Mike
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Wet wipes
Oct 26, 2021 13:43:13 GMT
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Post by Mike on Oct 26, 2021 13:43:13 GMT
The upside of moving away from meat is that the amount of land you need actually reduces and the amount of fertiliser you need reduces, like a virtual circle. Is this true in reality? On paper it may work this way with the correct crops, but given people's tendancy to swap meat for Quorn and soya... I have read that this kind of swap doesn't really achieve the desired improvements
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 26, 2021 13:48:34 GMT
Would agree about usage and battery life and i did mention the improvements - but my point was if you times that usage by the billions of devices worldwide that were not around 15 - 20 years ago then we are negating some of the improvements somewhat (and the fact every 9/12 months a "new" topline phone comes out) More than compensated by all the improvements in efficiency elsewhere... Total electricity consumption in the UK has fallen by ~15% in the last two decades, despite all those extra devices, server rooms, electric cars... OTOH, LED bulbs etc etc... So Maybe without all the usage of tech it would be 20%
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 26, 2021 14:09:38 GMT
None of these green initiatives will work unless they are more efficient and save money long term. Even on a domestic level, these decisions will be decided at the polls.. being green might be a winner now, but once the cost to taxpayer is quantified a bit better don't doubt people will be put off and parties won't risk it The bottom line is we have too many people on earth now. And if we do things more efficiently (e.g all become vegans and eat the most resource-conserving food) then the outcome will be a higher population until that too becomes unsustainable. Unfortunately we are at or close to the point where resource constraints become an unavoidable natural limiting factor for population count Interestingly since leaving London I don't know any vegetarians or vegans at all in Cumbria. So that fad has barely migrated a few hundred miles in almost a decade, I don't expect it to become global anytime soon. Not to mention by not eating meat here you are shunning your neighbours (and in our case a friend and tenant of our land) which is a bit more personal than not buying supermarket Dutch pork ...! Very interesting post IMO. On the subject of the title of the thread, the UK is sadly very child unfriendly. I think many of us have forgotten what is was like to be a kid or even to be a parent. Kids now are to be ignored - shepherded around in 4x4s and told to be wary of everyone. No playing out on the street, very few and crappy facilities (apart from the paid ones). Nappy changing facilities abysmal. Most folk have either not had kids or can't remember or care about other struggling parents. Child Benefit essentially means tested. Teachers not well respected. Now they're being asked to be "green" and use disposable nappies or wet wipes that tear up and leave sh1t all over the place. I of course agree they shouldn't be flushed but I very much dislike the constant bashing of parents. The demographic of the UK is rapidly changing (not only age) as we are encouraging only the poor and the very wealthy to have kids. No foresensic evidence of the kind AdrianC is good at producing but I see it and feel it.
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Post by wildlife2 on Oct 26, 2021 14:24:11 GMT
Too many people just breed these days without even thinking or caring about how they are going to bring their children up.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 15:03:33 GMT
The upside of moving away from meat is that the amount of land you need actually reduces and the amount of fertiliser you need reduces, like a virtual circle. Is this true in reality? On paper it may work this way with the correct crops, but given people's tendancy to swap meat for Quorn and soya... I have read that this kind of swap doesn't really achieve the desired improvements Mike, do you have evidence that supports that view? I thought it was pretty simple that meat is something like 12 times poorer at making protein than soya/lentils/peas etc
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 15:08:17 GMT
In terms of blaming parents,,,, I must have missed that. I have no information as to what proportion of wipes comes from people carrying out parenting duties or indeed what proportion are incorrectly flushed down the loo because being a parent has stopped the person reading the label. I think generally this is not a parent issue, this is a dumb-human issue (which at times includes all of us).
I have seen some people washing their dog's arse with a wipe and leaving it on the street. Clearly either they are taking pet-as-child concepts too far or they need a special circle of hell I'm not sure which
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Oct 26, 2021 15:26:35 GMT
Is this true in reality? On paper it may work this way with the correct crops, but given people's tendancy to swap meat for Quorn and soya... I have read that this kind of swap doesn't really achieve the desired improvements Mike, do you have evidence that supports that view? I thought it was pretty simple that meat is something like 12 times poorer at making protein than soya/lentils/peas etc I was genuinely asking the question, because I hear one story from one side and also see articles like www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/feb/15/ask-leo-tofu-bad-for-environmentAnd Google-ing as neutrally as I can generally provides results claiming similar things www.google.com/search?q=soya+versus+meat+environmentSo I really do not know the answer when it comes to Soya-based protein. It does not seem to be as clear-cut in the UK as many suggest in terms of environmental impact - though I am happy to be directed and swayed if there is an objectively strong argument that swapping meat for soya (in the real-life way people do, in the UK) is really an environmentally friendly move
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 15:39:30 GMT
two good articles and they pretty much explain that you have to understand the why and wherefore in climate change. That makes sense, if we had created a simple world it would have simple solutions but we didn't.
I do find the whole, what to do with uplands, an interesting question. I often go to Orkney and there the land had most of their trees removed 1000 years ago or more. The land went through the whole devestation and lack of fertility thing some generations ago. They do still keep sheep and beef but in low quantities because their food comes from the sea and Tescos. Given how north they are wind power is good and solar more difficult but I have some friends slowly introducing the idea of the cloch to extend the growing season.
Tree growing is the obvious next step but it is so damn windy they can't plant one before it gets blown over, the top soil is too thin to support the roots, so what to do.....In Iceland (further north and the same problems) they plant lupins and then summer time students are re-foresting the land. In Orkney they just fish the tourists.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Oct 26, 2021 15:47:42 GMT
Tired mothers find that wet wipes and disposable nappies have transformed their existance .
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Oct 26, 2021 15:55:39 GMT
two good articles and they pretty much explain that you have to understand the why and wherefore in climate change. That makes sense, if we had created a simple world it would have simple solutions but we didn't.
I do find the whole, what to do with uplands, an interesting question. I often go to Orkney and there the land had most of their trees removed 1000 years ago or more. The land went through the whole devestation and lack of fertility thing some generations ago. They do still keep sheep and beef but in low quantities because their food comes from the sea and Tescos. Given how north they are wind power is good and solar more difficult but I have some friends slowly introducing the idea of the cloch to extend the growing season.
Tree growing is the obvious next step but it is so damn windy they can't plant one before it gets blown over, the top soil is too thin to support the roots, so what to do.....In Iceland (further north and the same problems) they plant lupins and then summer time students are re-foresting the land. In Orkney they just fish the tourists.
Given time I could reforest the Orkney and Shetland Isles....but you would have to get rid of the ruddy sheep farmers. (Same problem with deer and sheep on my land, which is poor and thin but holds trees if sensibly chosen and cared for. If I was King I'd transport the lot to.....Syria?)
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