adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 24, 2022 13:26:52 GMT
Doesn't she also have a Dutch husband living in the Netherlands? No, she has a Dutch husband in prison in Syria. Just having a Dutch husband does not make her eligible for Dutch nationality, any more than him having a British wife makes him eligible for British nationality. The question is whether or not she is eligible to apply for Bangladeshi nationality. She unequivocally does not currently have it - but is eligibility alone sufficient to prevent statelessness? If you're a dual-national, then - yes - you can have your British nationality revoked, or the other country could revoke that nationality. You would not be stateless, you would retain the other nationality. If you're not, then you cannot be left stateless, so no country can revoke your sole nationality. The UK gov'ts argument is that Begum would not be stateless, because while she doesn't currently have Bangladeshi nationality, she could apply for it - Bangladeshi law requires nationality to be granted to all children of Bangladeshi nationals (her father) who apply for it. Some countries do not allow their nationals to hold dual nationality at all, and would automatically revoke your original nationality on you gaining another. Others - like the UK - would need a very strong reason to revoke. If your kids are dual UK-UA nationals, then while they're in Ukraine, they're viewed as Ukrainian - so would be liable to military service etc, and would not be eligible for consular assistance - because they're in their "home" country, their country of nationality. That was half of the issue around Nazanin Z-R, being dual UK-Iranian.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 24, 2022 13:59:35 GMT
What if the subject is not Begum? Could a Boris or a Harry with high social status lose their citizenship if have done the same like her? Tough same rules should apply Same as the argument that if she is found guilty in Bangladesh she could be hung. again tough As I understand she declared she was a citizen of the Islamic state not the UK, therefore us revoking her citizenship isn't an issue she did it. She was an enforcer for the ISIS "morality" police, she admits that seeing severed heads in bins didn't "faze" her. She says the Manchester Arena bombing was justified in revenge for western attacks on ISIS. IMO this woman is dangerous and should not be allowed back into the UK, where let's face it she would spend her life on benefits.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 24, 2022 14:13:52 GMT
What if the subject is not Begum? Could a Boris or a Harry with high social status lose their citizenship if have done the same like her? Tough same rules should apply Same as the argument that if she is found guilty in Bangladesh she could be hung. again tough As I understand she declared she was a citizen of the Islamic state not the UK, therefore us revoking her citizenship isn't an issue she did it. She was an enforcer for the ISIS "morality" police, she admits that seeing severed heads in bins didn't "faze" her. She says the Manchester Arena bombing was justified in revenge for western attacks on ISIS. IMO this woman is dangerous and should not be allowed back into the UK, where let's face it she would spend her life on benefits. Same rules for all UK citizens? What if the subject is someone young, and leaves the UK and follow their SO to another country for gang crimes? Would they lose their citizenship as well? The subject does not kill but only recruits gang members from the UK?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 24, 2022 14:22:29 GMT
Subtly different.
She has to be reasonably intelligent to plan her move to ISIS as she did, therefore that intelligence should have let her see what a murderous bunch she was joining, her KC's argument that she thought she was "joining a community " is IMHO complete bovine excrement. yes, it was a community, a community that wants to destroy the west.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 24, 2022 14:28:28 GMT
Subtly different. She has to be reasonably intelligent to plan her move to ISIS as she did, therefore that intelligence should have let her see what a murderous bunch she was joining, her KC's argument that she thought she was "joining a community " is IMHO complete bovine excrement. yes, it was a community, a community that wants to destroy the west. What is your answer? (Its yes or no I think)
What if the subject is someone young, and leaves the UK and follow their SO to another country for gang crimes? Would they lose their citizenship as well? The subject does not kill but only recruits gang members from the UK?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 24, 2022 14:29:33 GMT
destroying the west by entering Syria? 😅
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 24, 2022 14:36:01 GMT
Subtly different. She has to be reasonably intelligent to plan her move to ISIS as she did, therefore that intelligence should have let her see what a murderous bunch she was joining, her KC's argument that she thought she was "joining a community " is IMHO complete bovine excrement. yes, it was a community, a community that wants to destroy the west. What is your answer? (Its yes or no I think)
What if the subject is someone young, and leaves the UK and follow their SO to another country for gang crimes? Would they lose their citizenship as well? The subject does not kill but only recruits gang members from the UK?NO, but if they know the gang is involved in Murder, etc before going then yes. but of course not if removing British citizenship would leave them stateless.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 24, 2022 14:48:44 GMT
I understand that the passport can be revoked for denied entries and deprivation of citizenship is used against those who obtained citizenship by fraud and against the "most dangerous" people.
I am not qualified to answer the characteristics of "most dangerous" people, despite there have been many "dangerous" people harming UK economy and public finance.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Nov 24, 2022 15:21:52 GMT
Doesn't she also have a Dutch husband living in the Netherlands? So she arguably has two options, Bangladeshi or Dutch Citizenship? Can't for the life of me figure out why the UK is so obsessively attractive ..............  As I understand it she lived here for the first 15 years of her life until she left. Leaving her aside for a moment, what I don't like is the idea that someone can make me non-British. They can put me in prison for the rest of my life but IMO they should not be able to remove the fact that I am British. Does it mean that if I gain Australian citizenship then suddenly my British passport is at risk because I have another "option" ? And does it mean that my children are at more risk than other children because they have a Ukranian passport in addition to their UK one ?Yes, this is exactly correct. It's not good in principle or practice IMHO because it indicates a distinct lack of respect or responsibility towards the very concept of citizenship. Spousal visa routes tend to be voided without residency (which is is turn rarely permitted without police clearance over the past X years) so unlikely for her to put it mildly  I still believe she was radicalized (brainwashed), groomed and raped as a minor and probably suffered serious trauma from a couple of kids dying. My sympathy for that doesn't make her conduct any less abhorrent to me but I don't believe it's right to wash hands of her in a manner that has potential implications for so many (other) British citizens. No easy answers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2022 15:27:50 GMT
children photo comment
" There is no law preventing people from taking photographs in public. This includes taking photos of other people’s children.
If you are taking photographs from private land, you need to have the land owner’s permission. Taking a photo of a person where they can expect privacy, such as inside their home or garden, is likely to cause a breach of privacy laws.
Unless the images which have been taken are indecent, no one has the right to:
ask a photographer to stop
ask for a copy of the photos
force a photographer to delete the photographs "
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 24, 2022 15:36:34 GMT
As I understand she declared she was a citizen of the Islamic state not the UK, therefore us revoking her citizenship isn't an issue The minor issue with that logic is that it would require the UK to recognise the existence of "Islamic State" as an actual country... If she's that dangerous, shouldn't she perhaps be in prison? I mean, I'm assuming that this danger is somehow legally quantifiable and demonstrable, not just a kneejerk presumption based on what some idiot brainwashed child said in the past, because that would be silly, right? She has to be reasonably intelligent to plan her move to ISIS as she did Mmm...
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 24, 2022 17:31:17 GMT
Just having a Dutch husband does not make her eligible for Dutch nationality, any more than him having a British wife makes him eligible for British nationality. My niece is married to a German man:
- the fact he is married to an english woman does not give him an automatic right to reside in UK
- the fact that she is married to a German man does not give her an automatic right tom reside in Germany
- their children are legally entitled to reside in either country
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 24, 2022 17:39:19 GMT
Just having a Dutch husband does not make her eligible for Dutch nationality, any more than him having a British wife makes him eligible for British nationality. My niece is married to a German man:
- the fact he is married to an english woman does not give him an automatic right to reside in UK
- the fact that she is married to a German man does not give her an automatic right tom reside in Germany
- their children are legally entitled to reside in either country
So their children could lose their UK passport but not their German one? And if (I don't know but perfectly possible) like my children, they spent virtually all their life in the UK it makes the possibility of losing their UK citizenship all the more unreasonable.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 24, 2022 18:59:56 GMT
My niece is married to a German man: - the fact he is married to an english woman does not give him an automatic right to reside in UK
- the fact that she is married to a German man does not give her an automatic right tom reside in Germany
- their children are legally entitled to reside in either country
So their children could lose their UK passport but not their German one? And if (I don't know but perfectly possible) like my children, they spent virtually all their life in the UK it makes the possibility of losing their UK citizenship all the more unreasonable. Let's go back a step... What are your children doing that would justify the UK government deciding to strip them of their British nationality...? www.gov.uk/government/publications/nationality-and-borders-bill-deprivation-of-citizenship-factsheet/nationality-and-borders-bill-deprivation-of-citizenship-factsheetObvs, if whatever crimes they commit affect Ukraine, then the Ukrainian government may strip them of that nationality before the UK get round to it - so the UK government couldn't, because that would leave them stateless.
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Post by gramsky on Nov 24, 2022 19:14:09 GMT
One thing that makes me object to her returning to this country is that she will instantly become a celebrity and every journalist, TV chat show anchor will be begging to interview her. Not to mention all the human rights lawyers and other do gooders wanting to cash in or score points.
Would you want to see her on the Oprah Winfrey show?
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