michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 22, 2023 16:15:52 GMT
So you and Ace believe that the first two days of the war were due to American support? That's just laughable. No, I think that without US support, Ukrainian resistance would have lasted about two days. What did they provide in the first 2 days? As far as I know in the first few days, the US offered to give Zelensky's a free ride out which he politely declined.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 22, 2023 17:02:05 GMT
No, I think that without US support, Ukrainian resistance would have lasted about two days. What did they provide in the first 2 days? As far as I know in the first few days, the US offered to give Zelensky's a free ride out which he politely declined. Previous 9 years of training? But I would agree Russian failure in the early days had little to do with US direct assistance ... mostly geography & Russian stupidity. British & European help was probably as influential so I would suggest the basic premise that Russia would have annexed Ukraine quickly if Trump was in office is false. The subsequent year would likely have planned out differently however
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 22, 2023 18:49:41 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 22, 2023 21:06:25 GMT
What did they provide in the first 2 days? As far as I know in the first few days, the US offered to give Zelensky's a free ride out which he politely declined. Previous 9 years of training? But I would agree Russian failure in the early days had little to do with US direct assistance ... mostly geography & Russian stupidity. British & European help was probably as influential so I would suggest the basic premise that Russia would have annexed Ukraine quickly if Trump was in office is false. The subsequent year would likely have planned out differently however 2 days ? definitely not. But I'm not so sure that the premise that it would have been relatively quickly is necessarily false. Trump had been out of office for a little over a year. Biden had made a point pretty early on of rebuilding relationships with European Nato partners. The US (and UK) made a point of releasing intelligence re. the likeliehood of invasion in a way that hadn't really been done before. Would that intelligence line to Ukraine been as open as it was with Trump in power ? Did that early release help to 'prepare' european leaders a little bit earlier (yes I know that Fr and De were in their own bubble of denial) ? Would UK and parts of Europe have been as strong and 'quick' to provide support if Trump had stayed in power and the US-Nato relationships had continued to have deteriorated rather than being strengthened ? Would the 'back avenue' noises to Ukr about support have been the same as they were ? I think those are all valid doubts.
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Post by Ace on Oct 22, 2023 22:03:26 GMT
I don't think that the "2 day" comment was supposed to be taken literally. I took it as an amusing, if exaggerated, dig at the preposterous idea that anything could possibly be better with the orange buffoon in charge.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 23, 2023 9:53:10 GMT
If there are any world leaders that could end the war in 2 days and save thousands or even millions of lives, they would be loved and remembered for sure.
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Post by overthehill on Oct 23, 2023 12:40:03 GMT
Our trustworthy essential UK business partner Chinese dictator Winnie the Poo isn't just tanking the Chinese economy, he's doing a lot of moonlighting as well.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 23, 2023 14:05:16 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 23, 2023 14:31:28 GMT
Our trustworthy essential UK business partner Chinese dictator Winnie the Poo isn't just tanking the Chinese economy, he's doing a lot of moonlighting as well.
You notice though, a lack of international reaction about the cutting of these cables. I think the reason might be that there was a storm in progress at the time of the event and the theory is that vessels in the area used drag anchors to stop being blown ashore. Something I read somewhere. I think the vessel insurer might be in line for a whopping claim but it's possible that this was not a malign act by baddies.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 23, 2023 17:01:23 GMT
If there are any world leaders that could end the war in 2 days and save thousands or even millions of lives, they would be loved and remembered for sure. Unless it causes a worse war down the road, a bit like the start of WWII. Or do we always just rollover after aggression on the grounds it will save lives? At least temporarily until the aggressor gets his feet under the table.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 23, 2023 19:28:16 GMT
If there are any world leaders that could end the war in 2 days and save thousands or even millions of lives, they would be loved and remembered for sure. Unless it causes a worse war down the road, a bit like the start of WWII. Or do we always just rollover after aggression on the grounds it will save lives? At least temporarily until the aggressor gets his feet under the table. What if the deterrent value was sufficient to...err....deter attack in the first place ? And/Or what if countries' sensitivities' were better taken into account ? In either or preferably both of those scenarios we'd be in a better place than we are now. Trump may well be an a-hole as an individual and Biden (and Obama for that matter) might be much more pleasant to go and have a beer with but unfortunately Biden is happy to be pushed along by the US establishment, f-up the world they try to police, spending huge amounts of cash and in many cases lives.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 24, 2023 8:32:17 GMT
If there are any world leaders that could end the war in 2 days and save thousands or even millions of lives, they would be loved and remembered for sure. Unless it causes a worse war down the road, a bit like the start of WWII. Or do we always just rollover after aggression on the grounds it will save lives? At least temporarily until the aggressor gets his feet under the table. Did the end of WW1 "cause" WW2? Debatable. It certainly left tensions that contributed, but it seems there was a much more direct cause... Anyway, I'm not sure that benaj was suggesting simple capitulation to Putin's invasion.
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Post by overthehill on Nov 14, 2023 9:45:30 GMT
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 14, 2023 12:53:48 GMT
I wonder what that clown 🤡 said to make the children laugh in Gaza
Meanwhile, has POTUS found a way speak to the right person releasing their nationals being held hostage?
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Post by overthehill on Nov 16, 2023 17:10:56 GMT
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Yeh, the one in the middle is definitely not the most convincing.