Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 2,780
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 22, 2024 17:29:46 GMT
One guy sends his mates a private joke and gets 2 days in the cells followed by a possible 100,00K bill because some idiot in gchq or similar thought they were doing a great job intercepting his joke. For me what is critical is whether the message could be viewed by non-friends. Would three guys in a private house somewhere who made such a joke also be subject to enforcement like this?www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68056421I hope that is what they are doing listening in on potential terrorists, one man's joke is another man's threat. Assuming all discussions about bombing planes are just a joke would not be a good idea. It's not the 'joke', although joking about bombing a plane is never a good joke, it's more the repercussions of fighter jets being deployed. If there had been a bomb on the flight and GCHQ ignored a potential 'warning', they would be in deep sh*t. There wouldn't be time to do thorough background checks on all involved in the 'joke' to decide if it really was just a joke before warning the aircraft.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,597
Likes: 1,736
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 17:51:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by benaj on Jan 22, 2024 17:51:08 GMT
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,034
Likes: 4,433
Member is Online
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 18:08:58 GMT
Post by agent69 on Jan 22, 2024 18:08:58 GMT
So about 0.06% of their total flights?
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,597
Likes: 1,736
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 18:09:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by benaj on Jan 22, 2024 18:09:57 GMT
I guess it only affects the unlucky lots like me. 😅 Doesn’t matter which airline, it just “me.”
|
|
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 18:56:49 GMT
Post by bernythedolt on Jan 22, 2024 18:56:49 GMT
One guy sends his mates a private joke and gets 2 days in the cells followed by a possible 100,00K bill because some idiot in gchq or similar thought they were doing a great job intercepting his joke. For me what is critical is whether the message could be viewed by non-friends. Would three guys in a private house somewhere who made such a joke also be subject to enforcement like this? www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68056421I doubt you'll find many idiots working at GCHQ. More likely some of the sharpest brains in the entire UK. Have you ever seen some of the quiz questions they release for the general public from time to time? They come up with them just for fun, in their spare time, as a hobby on the side. More genius per square mile than almost anywhere in the country, I should imagine. I think the only idiot here was the one driving his phone. Personally, I'm very grateful that our security services are doing their bit to keep us as safe as possible from the serious nutjobs within our country, as well as externally. And I bet we only see a tiny handful of the potential atrocities they manage to thwart every year. More power to their elbow.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,682
Likes: 2,974
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 19:11:13 GMT
Post by michaelc on Jan 22, 2024 19:11:13 GMT
One guy sends his mates a private joke and gets 2 days in the cells followed by a possible 100,00K bill because some idiot in gchq or similar thought they were doing a great job intercepting his joke. For me what is critical is whether the message could be viewed by non-friends. Would three guys in a private house somewhere who made such a joke also be subject to enforcement like this?www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68056421I hope that is what they are doing listening in on potential terrorists, one man's joke is another man's threat. Assuming all discussions about bombing planes are just a joke would not be a good idea. It's not the 'joke', although joking about bombing a plane is never a good joke, it's more the repercussions of fighter jets being deployed. If there had been a bomb on the flight and GCHQ ignored a potential 'warning', they would be in deep sh*t. There wouldn't be time to do thorough background checks on all involved in the 'joke' to decide if it really was just a joke before warning the aircraft. I agree its not a joke when for example at the airport or in a plane particularly when you could be overheard. But in private? Surely anything goes?
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,682
Likes: 2,974
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 19:19:25 GMT
Post by michaelc on Jan 22, 2024 19:19:25 GMT
One guy sends his mates a private joke and gets 2 days in the cells followed by a possible 100,00K bill because some idiot in gchq or similar thought they were doing a great job intercepting his joke. For me what is critical is whether the message could be viewed by non-friends. Would three guys in a private house somewhere who made such a joke also be subject to enforcement like this? www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68056421I doubt you'll find many idiots working at GCHQ. More likely some of the sharpest brains in the entire UK. Have you ever seen some of the quiz questions they release for the general public from time to time? They come up with them just for fun, in their spare time, as a hobby on the side. More genius per square mile than almost anywhere in the country, I should imagine. I think the only idiot here was the one driving his phone. Personally, I'm very grateful that our security services are doing their bit to keep us as safe as possible from the serious nutjobs within our country, as well as externally. And I bet we only see a tiny handful of the potential atrocities they manage to thwart every year. More power to their elbow. I have some first hand knowledge of that organisation and certainly was not implying that it as an organisation is a bunch of idiots. There are undoubtedly some good mathematicians there although harder to attract these days as finance is (far) more lucrative. I said "some idiot" likely getting excited about a private joke and sending up a military intercept. That "idiot" I referred to was likely not a mathematician but a decision maker probably a member of another security service. A private joke is IMO just that. Whether funny or not is nobody's business IMO and certainly not worth spending 100K on. If we think its ok to use private jokes as intelligence, then if the technology exists (and who knows it doesn't?) to remotely acquire a person's dreams when he is asleep, then would it be ok to use those as intelligence too? I find this not-dissimilar to cabin crew having planes diverted etc because they couldn't control a passenger. Yes there likely are some situations but there are likely many others whereby the person could be brought under control without turning the plane around or back to stand. There's a bit of "I'll show the bastard" which of course comes out as "...my training kicked in and we informed the pilot blah blah..."
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 2,780
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 20:31:37 GMT
Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 22, 2024 20:31:37 GMT
I hope that is what they are doing listening in on potential terrorists, one man's joke is another man's threat. Assuming all discussions about bombing planes are just a joke would not be a good idea. It's not the 'joke', although joking about bombing a plane is never a good joke, it's more the repercussions of fighter jets being deployed. If there had been a bomb on the flight and GCHQ ignored a potential 'warning', they would be in deep sh*t. There wouldn't be time to do thorough background checks on all involved in the 'joke' to decide if it really was just a joke before warning the aircraft. I agree its not a joke when for example at the airport or in a plane particularly when you could be overheard. But in private? Surely anything goes? You know nothing you put on the internet is private.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,682
Likes: 2,974
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 20:42:17 GMT
Post by michaelc on Jan 22, 2024 20:42:17 GMT
I agree its not a joke when for example at the airport or in a plane particularly when you could be overheard. But in private? Surely anything goes? You know nothing you put on the internet is private. What does "putting on the internet" mean ? Is sending a Whatsapp message putting it on the internet? What about sending a tcp ack packet to a random server? Is that "putting it on the internet" ? I don't know instagram or how its private groups work. But still you could answer the question about making a joke in real life totally in private. Should that be allowed ? Is it allowed?
|
|
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 21:33:00 GMT
Post by bernythedolt on Jan 22, 2024 21:33:00 GMT
I hope that is what they are doing listening in on potential terrorists, one man's joke is another man's threat. Assuming all discussions about bombing planes are just a joke would not be a good idea. It's not the 'joke', although joking about bombing a plane is never a good joke, it's more the repercussions of fighter jets being deployed. If there had been a bomb on the flight and GCHQ ignored a potential 'warning', they would be in deep sh*t. There wouldn't be time to do thorough background checks on all involved in the 'joke' to decide if it really was just a joke before warning the aircraft. I agree its not a joke when for example at the airport or in a plane particularly when you could be overheard. But in private? Surely anything goes?Those whose objective is to blow up an airliner - and they exist - would love that to be the case. Furthermore, it wasn't in private. It was an electronic communication and, as such, is subject to the Telecommunications Act 1984, under which he has almost certainly committed an offence... I'm sure there would be an even more compelling section of the Act explicitly covering threats of terrorism, but I haven't the inclination to search right now.
|
|
travolta
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 1,214
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 21:41:45 GMT
Post by travolta on Jan 22, 2024 21:41:45 GMT
I travel a lot less as I can only afford a few business/first class flights . I'm nearly 6' and slim but leg room is a trial on long haul. Happy to pay out and now mostly travel by volvo or soft/first class rail in Europe. Elephant people should be culled,even if they are nice. Their overindulgence is a crime against humanity.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,682
Likes: 2,974
|
Flying
Jan 22, 2024 22:26:58 GMT
Post by michaelc on Jan 22, 2024 22:26:58 GMT
I agree its not a joke when for example at the airport or in a plane particularly when you could be overheard. But in private? Surely anything goes?Those whose objective is to blow up an airliner - and they exist - would love that to be the case. Furthermore, it wasn't in private. It was an electronic communication and, as such, is subject to the Telecommunications Act 1984, under which he has almost certainly committed an offence... I'm sure there would be an even more compelling section of the Act explicitly covering threats of terrorism, but I haven't the inclination to search right now. So if I announced to my wife this evening that "....I'm gonna blow up a plane.." and assuming she didn't call for the men in white coats and maybe I'd phrased it differently or it was somehow in context so that it was somehow somewhat amusing, you'd be comfortable in that being a crime ? And where is the "needless anxiety" in this guy's joke? Presumably he made his buddies laugh? Gimme a break....
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Jan 23, 2024 1:24:26 GMT
Those whose objective is to blow up an airliner - and they exist - would love that to be the case. Furthermore, it wasn't in private. It was an electronic communication and, as such, is subject to the Telecommunications Act 1984, under which he has almost certainly committed an offence... I'm sure there would be an even more compelling section of the Act explicitly covering threats of terrorism, but I haven't the inclination to search right now. So if I announced to my wife this evening that "....I'm gonna blow up a plane.." and assuming she didn't call for the men in white coats and maybe I'd phrased it differently or it was somehow in context so that it was somehow somewhat amusing, you'd be comfortable in that being a crime ? And where is the "needless anxiety" in this guy's joke? Presumably he made his buddies laugh? Gimme a break.... I'm no lawyer, so whether technically he committed an offence under the Telecommunications or Anti-Terrorism legislation is one for those better qualified. However, the authorities are charged with trying to protect our citizens, so anyone idiotic enough to transmit electronically that they plan to blow up the plane they're just about to board might expect to get their collar felt. It's known that they monitor comms for trigger words and no doubt couple with AI and other intelligence sources these days to get a fair picture of events and likelihoods. I'm sure he made his buddies laugh. Let's hope he sees the funny side when he gets the bill for the F18s scrambled... Let me turn your question on its head and ask this. Would you be comfortable if somebody succeeded in blowing up a plane, with hundreds of lives lost, having first discussed their plans by Snapchat, which the intelligence services were duly alerted to yet took no preventative action against because it was probably all just a big laugh? I suspect you'd be complaining bitterly that they ignored the very compelling evidence before them and now all those people have perished. So what should the intelligence services do exactly? Personally, I'd feel safer if they continue to act on the side of caution and treat these events seriously.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,989
Likes: 5,131
Member is Online
|
Post by adrianc on Jan 23, 2024 9:55:14 GMT
You know nothing you put on the internet is private. What does "putting on the internet" mean ? Is sending a Whatsapp message putting it on the internet? What about sending a tcp ack packet to a random server? Is that "putting it on the internet" ? I don't know instagram or how its private groups work. But still you could answer the question about making a joke in real life totally in private. Should that be allowed ? Is it allowed? "Aditya Verma made the comment on Snapchat on his way to the island of Menorca with friends in July 2022. The message, sent before Mr Verma departed Gatwick airport, read: "On my way to blow up the plane (I'm a member of the Taliban)." ... A court in Madrid heard it was assumed the message triggered alarm bells after being picked up via Gatwick's Wi-Fi network."WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted, so messages cannot be intercepted. However, this wasn't WhatsApp. It was posted publicly, using a commercial entity's unsecured wifi network - which he will have agreed to the Ts & Cs before using, which will undoubtedly include content scanning. www.gatwickairport.com/passenger-guides/wifi-charging.htmlThe man's a raging idiot, and is entirely the author of his own misfortune.
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 2,615
|
Flying
Jan 23, 2024 10:32:14 GMT
Post by keitha on Jan 23, 2024 10:32:14 GMT
What does "putting on the internet" mean ? Is sending a Whatsapp message putting it on the internet? What about sending a tcp ack packet to a random server? Is that "putting it on the internet" ? I don't know instagram or how its private groups work. But still you could answer the question about making a joke in real life totally in private. Should that be allowed ? Is it allowed? "Aditya Verma made the comment on Snapchat on his way to the island of Menorca with friends in July 2022. The message, sent before Mr Verma departed Gatwick airport, read: "On my way to blow up the plane (I'm a member of the Taliban)." ... A court in Madrid heard it was assumed the message triggered alarm bells after being picked up via Gatwick's Wi-Fi network."WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted, so messages cannot be intercepted. However, this wasn't WhatsApp. It was posted publicly, using a commercial entity's unsecured wifi network - which he will have agreed to the Ts & Cs before using, which will undoubtedly include content scanning. www.gatwickairport.com/passenger-guides/wifi-charging.htmlThe man's a raging idiot, and is entirely the author of his own misfortune. He might and probably would have got away with the comment had he made it in the car en-route or before leaving home. He may have thought it a joke, I'd take a bet the pilot was informed and he wasn't happy nor were the 2 pilots sent to intercept, remember those guys would have had instructions and for example had the plane been damaged and unable to make a controlled landing were it to be over a heavily populated area they would have been instructed to ensure it was in small bits. He's almost as much and idiot as the sceptics who insist that their second amendment rights " the right to bare(sic) arms" cannot be infringed by EU, UK or any other country "its US law"
|
|