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Post by captainconfident on Jan 12, 2024 17:02:07 GMT
I'm somewhat aligned with the little englanders here. Lets learn not to shoot at people very far away and try to live without goods that had to be transported through the Red Sea.
Some entrepreneur was on TWAO yesterday moaning that their container of wooden garden furniture bespoke made for their clients had sailed off round the horn and would be late. Well your business is extracting a rent on a difference in pay for a carpenter in the UK and one in China. I blame the customer really. If your rich enough, show a little pride, or a little respect for the environment and get it locally.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 12, 2024 17:16:04 GMT
Not really ... they arent the recognised government of Yemen so rebels. The French are involved, they have a frigate there shooting down drones and stopping ships from being seized. The Italians are sending/have sent a frigate and there are 40 odd countries involved in the operation. Unclear as yet who will join in a strike, though will probably depend on who has offensive platforms down there - US have a carrier battlegroup, French frigate has Scalp cruise (Storm Shadow), Diamond & Lancaster (doubt Richmond is there yet) have Harpoon (not exactly designed for ground attack) Seems to be UK leading on this one, not the US. Gulf has always been a British sphere more than the European countries Well, as predicted we fired a bunch of missiles into Yemen. So half of Yemen just got added to the list of foreign actors that will likely want to do us harm. I'm sure there are other disputes around the world we could weigh in on. Some more wrongs that need bombing into rights.... Its not a dispute we are weighing in on ... it's people shooting missiles & drones at commercial shipping on one of the key shipping routes in the world with significant economic impact. Current estimates are .5 increase in inflation, including 25% increase in gas prices, which means energy bills, hence a coalition has taken action. As for adding to foreign actors ... the Houthis are allied with Iran, Hama's & Hezbollah... they were already in the don't like us camp. You still haven't suggested an alternative ...
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 12, 2024 17:24:50 GMT
British aircraft from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus were used in the attacks. In order to get to Yemen they must have flown over Egypt, or Jordan / Saudi Arabia. I assume they would have needed the agreement of one of these countries to use their air space?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 12, 2024 17:24:55 GMT
Well, as predicted we fired a bunch of missiles into Yemen. So half of Yemen just got added to the list of foreign actors that will likely want to do us harm. I'm sure there are other disputes around the world we could weigh in on. Some more wrongs that need bombing into rights.... Its not a dispute we are weighing in on ... it's people shooting missiles & drones at commercial shipping on one of the key shipping routes in the world with significant economic impact. Current estimates are .5 increase in inflation, including 25% increase in gas prices, which means energy bills, hence a coalition has taken action. As for adding to foreign actors ... the Houthis are allied with Iran, Hama's & Hezbollah... they were already in the don't like us camp. You still haven't suggested an alternative ... and in this context may very well actually be acting purely as Iranian proxies. There weapons are largely supplied by Iran, and it is unlikely they would be attacking shipping without Iran's approval, but even more likely at Iran's bidding. The options are all poor. And I'm not sure that the action taken is the best. But if nothing is done then we are essentially saying that we accept that actor's can close down the Suez, the Red Sea, and probably the Persian Gulf as well, to legitimate commercial international traffic.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 12, 2024 17:30:12 GMT
Saudi have been bombing the hell out of them for years, this is not going to stop them. All this is going to do is make the US look even more powerless and weak as they fail to stop Houthi's Attacks on ships in the region. Houthis make the Wagner Group look like the Girl Guides. I am hoping this attack on the Houthi Rebels is not a prelude to an attack on Iran which could be the start of Armageddon.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 12, 2024 17:36:52 GMT
British aircraft from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus were used in the attacks. In order to get to Yemen they must have flown over Egypt, or Jordan / Saudi Arabia. I assume they would have needed the agreement of one of these countries to use their air space? It would not be difficult to get permission from the Saudi's to bomb the Houthis
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 12, 2024 17:43:31 GMT
Not really ... they arent the recognised government of Yemen so rebels. The French are involved, they have a frigate there shooting down drones and stopping ships from being seized. The Italians are sending/have sent a frigate and there are 40 odd countries involved in the operation. Unclear as yet who will join in a strike, though will probably depend on who has offensive platforms down there - US have a carrier battlegroup, French frigate has Scalp cruise (Storm Shadow), Diamond & Lancaster (doubt Richmond is there yet) have Harpoon (not exactly designed for ground attack) Seems to be UK leading on this one, not the US. Gulf has always been a British sphere more than the European countries Well, as predicted we fired a bunch of missiles into Yemen. So half of Yemen just got added to the list of foreign actors that will likely want to do us harm. I'm sure there are other disputes around the world we could weigh in on. Some more wrongs that need bombing into rights.... There are indeed but we leave that to less bloodthirsty types like the French (sub-saharan Africa) & Russians (anywhere)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2024 17:45:14 GMT
Nothing to do with Sunak's last throw of the dice is it. Nothing at all. Global Britain, innit. We're so much more than a small lump of damp rock off the north coast of Europe, or something. Global superpower, Britannia rules the waves, Empire... HUZZAH! It's not quite as simple as UK/US alone, though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Prosperity_GuardianAus, Canada, South Korea, Germany, NL, Bahrain were also all involved in last night's strikes, and there's a few others involved in the ongoing joint ops - but, yeh, if the US is the "world's policeman", we're carrying the evidence bags back to the van as usual.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 12, 2024 17:49:43 GMT
British aircraft from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus were used in the attacks. In order to get to Yemen they must have flown over Egypt, or Jordan / Saudi Arabia. I assume they would have needed the agreement of one of these countries to use their air space? It would not be difficult to get permission from the Saudi's to bomb the Houthis Ironically the Saudis called for restraint. Wouldn't surprise me if the overflight was over territory of the country the Houthis are lobbing missiles at ... may even be a de-escalation it was us not them doing the strike.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 12, 2024 18:03:46 GMT
... All this is going to do is make the US look even more powerless and weak as they fail to stop Houthi's Attacks on ships in the region. ... and sitting on their hands while shipping in the Red Sea is attacked with an inevitable sinking and the ultimate stoppage of all merchant shipping through the Red Sea and Suez would make them look more powerful ? Sorry, your point here is a bit lost on me.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 12, 2024 18:04:04 GMT
It would not be difficult to get permission from the Saudi's to bomb the Houthis Ironically the Saudis called for restraint. Wouldn't surprise me if the overflight was over territory of the country the Houthis are lobbing missiles at ... may even be a de-escalation it was us not them doing the strike. What Saudi's say in public and agree to in private are two very different things *. At the end of the day they are a small country sitting on top of a massive reservoir of oil in a fairly volatile region. *A good example is the long standing links between the GIP and the Mossad.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 12, 2024 18:38:45 GMT
Ironically the Saudis called for restraint. Wouldn't surprise me if the overflight was over territory of the country the Houthis are lobbing missiles at ... may even be a de-escalation it was us not them doing the strike. At the end of the day they are a small country sitting on top of a massive reservoir of oil in a fairly volatile region. *A good example is the long standing links between the GIP and the Mossad. I think that point was already rather well understood already. The hypocrisy of the Saudi's is a given: they want the Houthi's to be beaten to hell and (not) back; only wound down their own (awful) campaign because of international pressure; they certainly don't like the fact that that houthi's are Iranian proxies (the good old Sunni vs Shia religious b*****s again). But of course in this instance, the attacks on shipping are ostensibly being done in sympathy with the Palestinians vs Israel, and so the Saudi ruling class can't antagonise their own subjects who are sympathetic to the cause. The Middle East eh ? Complicated, who'd have thunk it.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 12, 2024 19:18:31 GMT
What Saudi's say in public and agree to in private are two very different things *. At the end of the day they are a small country sitting on top of a massive reservoir of oil in a fairly volatile region. *A good example is the long standing links between the GIP and the Mossad. I think that point was already rather well understood already. The hypocrisy of the Saudi's is a given: they want the Houthi's to be beaten to hell and (not) back; only wound down their own (awful) campaign because of international pressure; they certainly don't like the fact that that houthi's are Iranian proxies (the good old Sunni vs Shia religious b*****s again). But of course in this instance, the attacks on shipping are ostensibly being done in sympathy with the Palestinians vs Israel, and so the Saudi ruling class can't antagonise their own subjects who are sympathetic to the cause. The Middle East eh ? Complicated, who'd have thunk it.
I would not call it hypocrisy it is just a very different culture to say the UK. I actually worked for a high ranking member of the Saudi Royal family (one step down from the King) which gave me an interesting insight into Saudi culture. I came to the conclusion that their long history of being traders made everything a sort of negotiation in which what is actually being negotiated is not totally apparent.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 12, 2024 19:24:49 GMT
Makes a change from doing practice runs along my valley,anyhow.
Eldest's bro in law runs a chicken factory farm and ordered a containers load of cheap,wizard equipment from China .
It whizzed up through Suez quickly and was then held up for months on Felixstowe Docks while Customs and Excise were on strike . Good old Broken Britain.
Show the flag by exploding stuff over barren desert then back for a full fried.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 12, 2024 20:07:10 GMT
Nothing to do with Sunak's last throw of the dice is it. Nothing at all. Global Britain, innit. We're so much more than a small lump of damp rock off the north coast of Europe, or something. Global superpower, Britannia rules the waves, Empire... HUZZAH! It's not quite as simple as UK/US alone, though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Prosperity_GuardianAus, Canada, South Korea, Germany, NL, Bahrain were also all involved in last night's strikes, and there's a few others involved in the ongoing joint ops - but, yeh, if the US is the "world's policeman", we're carrying the evidence bags back to the van as usual. Canada was NOT involved at all. And the others were supposedly involved in a "support" capacity.
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