merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Sept 26, 2014 11:05:49 GMT
Looks to me like pragmatics have at last entered the P2P investment equation with the consequential cooling of the bridging part of the AM following the Ip****h and Co announcements.
A short while ago I had to calculate what I thought I owed the taxman on my P2P activities for last year. When I did the numbers I was surprised to find that overall after taking into account losses, delays and tax, etc. I had made 4.2% on my investments in four P2P ventures. AC did best as there were no losses and FC did worst because there were plenty, which came as no surprise. However it did cause me to look again at my live investments and to change my investment strategy. In future I wont be rushing into bridging loans unless they have an LTV of better than 70% and a loan rate of 12% or better. So given the way things are on the P2P market at the moment I will probably have to find a new home for some of my money.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Sept 26, 2014 15:12:35 GMT
Looks to me like pragmatics have at last entered the P2P investment equation with the consequential cooling of the bridging part of the AM following the Ip****h and Co announcements.
A short while ago I had to calculate what I thought I owed the taxman on my P2P activities for last year. When I did the numbers I was surprised to find that overall after taking into account losses, delays and tax, etc. I had made 4.2% on my investments in four P2P ventures. AC did best as there were no losses and FC did worst because there were plenty, which came as no surprise. However it did cause me to look again at my live investments and to change my investment strategy. In future I wont be rushing into bridging loans unless they have an LTV of better than 70% and a loan rate of 12% or better. So given the way things are on the P2P market at the moment I will probably have to find a new home for some of my money. I will also review & tweak my strategy. I would still be very interested in higher risk, higher rate loans (still invested in many here but that's an individual risk appetite thing), but maybe with smaller figures spread over a wider net. A mixture of lower paying, more solid loans will be added to spread risk a bit.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 26, 2014 20:30:45 GMT
I'm not overly worried on the BLs though, as with the FF loan, AC have shown a fairly robust protection system, albeit taking a bit of time to get there, but we will be receiving high default rates anyway to compensate for the time lapse. ... if you can let that invested capital stay there for a few weeks, maybe months in some cases, you will get it back plus original and increased default interest on top. Which bank is gonna give you that.? It's very important to remember that what's happening now is that we're accruing default interest. Whether we actually receive it depends on the success of the recovery effort. AIUI, when the proceeds of a recovery are paid out, they go first to returning invested capital, then to paying fees -- and the fees incurred in pursuing a 'hostile' recovery can be substantial -- and then, if there's anything left, to paying the accrued interest. If there's a shortfall from a full recovery, it's the accrued interest that is reduced. With respect to FF, I think AC have done an admirable job to arrange the deal they have. But I still have my doubts as to whether lenders will achieve a full recovery of their capital, much less any accrued interest. IIRC, the initial payout was 57% of invested capital. There remain two PGs, each for 50% of capital. That might look good, but one of those is thought to be worthless. In that case, the remaining PG might be just enough to cover the remaining capital and a bit accrued interest, though fees will eat into that. IIRC, AC have said they'll put their fees to the back of the payment queue, but I don't expect that offer extends to the lawyers' fees or the introducer's fees. So even in the best case, a full recovery of accrued interest looks impossible and, IIRC, AC have admitted that. Furthermore, the second PG is backed by a charge on a portfolio of shares, but only to the extent of 36% of invested capital. If that's all that can be recovered from the PG then, as well as receiving none of the accrued interest, lenders will have a capital loss as well. One of the beauties of the agreed FF settlement from AC's point of view is that it's going to be a year before it is known how much, if any, of the accrued interest lenders will receive and whether lenders will incur a capital loss. Until then, of course, AC can claim to have a track record with no losses by lenders. Unless, of course, one of the current crop of defaulted bridging loans is finalised and doesn't produce a full recovery for lenders.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Sept 26, 2014 20:48:25 GMT
mike you are like one calling in the wilderness who can't be heard and on top of those fees there's don't forget naughty word(s)
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 28, 2014 14:23:19 GMT
As I write this, there are parts of 19 active loans for sale on the Aftermarket.
Is that a record? More importantly, is that an indication that investors are becoming disenchanted with AC, and are reducing their holdings -- or exiting completely? Is this a sign of a healthy Aftermarket? Or something that AC should be very concerned about?
To a certain extent, we should get some info when one of the large loans expecting to be repaid in the near future actually does pay back. Will a lot of the money released go into other existing AC loan? Or it will go elsewhere and leave AC with an Aftermarket that has lots more sellers than buyers.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Sept 28, 2014 16:56:52 GMT
As I write this, there are parts of 19 active loans for sale on the Aftermarket. Is that a record? More importantly, is that an indication that investors are becoming disenchanted with AC, and are reducing their holdings -- or exiting completely? Is this a sign of a healthy Aftermarket? Or something that AC should be very concerned about? To a certain extent, we should get some info when one of the large loans expecting to be repaid in the near future actually does pay back. Will a lot of the money released go into other existing AC loan? Or it will go elsewhere and leave AC with an Aftermarket that has lots more sellers than buyers. Guilty as charge! However rather than desertion it is more a case of heavy pruning, as I had indicated was my intention in a previous post on this thread. Naughty words no not this time, just a comfortable feeling, sort of the opposite of an acute case of nervousness.
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Post by mrclondon on Sept 28, 2014 17:46:04 GMT
As I write this, there are parts of 19 active loans for sale on the Aftermarket. Is that a record? More importantly, is that an indication that investors are becoming disenchanted with AC, and are reducing their holdings -- or exiting completely? Is this a sign of a healthy Aftermarket? Or something that AC should be very concerned about? To a certain extent, we should get some info when one of the large loans expecting to be repaid in the near future actually does pay back. Will a lot of the money released go into other existing AC loan? Or it will go elsewhere and leave AC with an Aftermarket that has lots more sellers than buyers. Possibly also an indication that a secondary market can not operate efficiently without a (near) instantaneous deposit system.
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Post by chris on Sept 28, 2014 18:52:41 GMT
As I write this, there are parts of 19 active loans for sale on the Aftermarket. Is that a record? More importantly, is that an indication that investors are becoming disenchanted with AC, and are reducing their holdings -- or exiting completely? Is this a sign of a healthy Aftermarket? Or something that AC should be very concerned about? To a certain extent, we should get some info when one of the large loans expecting to be repaid in the near future actually does pay back. Will a lot of the money released go into other existing AC loan? Or it will go elsewhere and leave AC with an Aftermarket that has lots more sellers than buyers. Possibly also an indication that a secondary market can not operate efficiently without a (near) instantaneous deposit system. Lots of speculation as to the health of the aftermarket. The more likely scenario is that lenders are continuing to shift activity away from the primary market and on to the secondary market. The total value of user (not underwriter) loan units currently listed for sale is 25% of what was on there two weeks ago, and activity from buyers remains strong.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Sept 28, 2014 21:32:59 GMT
As I write this, there are parts of 19 active loans for sale on the Aftermarket. Is that a record? More importantly, is that an indication that investors are becoming disenchanted with AC, and are reducing their holdings -- or exiting completely? Is this a sign of a healthy Aftermarket? Or something that AC should be very concerned about? To a certain extent, we should get some info when one of the large loans expecting to be repaid in the near future actually does pay back. Will a lot of the money released go into other existing AC loan? Or it will go elsewhere and leave AC with an Aftermarket that has lots more sellers than buyers. Interesting scenario. Personally I'm at my limit with AC for now. I have more than a couple in default and 'enjoying' the 18% - provided of course everything works out okay with these. If those settle then I'm not particularly attracted to what's on offer ATM in the AM. So maybe another strategy required.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Nov 1, 2014 18:13:51 GMT
The last 24 hours have seen more activity on AM & quite a few loans come up that haven't been available for a little while. Is this people releasing money to meet old shadow bids, general need for funds or a small spate of selling?
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Nov 1, 2014 18:53:45 GMT
The last 24 hours have seen more activity on AM & quite a few loans come up that haven't been available for a little while. Is this people releasing money to meet old shadow bids, general need for funds or a small spate of selling? As I said on another thread there could be many causes and some of them undoubtedly attributable to AC activities and the events or non-events surrounding some of the loans that have failed to complete. Couple this to the not too brilliant launch of a new interface to customers and some people will almost inevitably become nervous. The most nervous will take a flight to safety and sell, whilst others will like me, will wait patiently to see what happens in the short term. There are more loans due to finish soon and how they are handled will have a major bearing on punters like me!
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Post by chris on Nov 2, 2014 8:15:07 GMT
The last 24 hours have seen more activity on AM & quite a few loans come up that haven't been available for a little while. Is this people releasing money to meet old shadow bids, general need for funds or a small spate of selling? There's a lot of loans looking to draw down shortly which have come together as a clump, several underwriters are looking to sell parts of their holding in order to help meet their commitments. There may well be some user sales as well but my understanding is that this is the major driver for it at the moment.
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Post by Duane Dibley on Nov 2, 2014 9:30:35 GMT
I remember the good old days when you couldn't snaffle up a loan part for love or bananas and you had to wait a month of Sundays for a loan to drawdown.
Yet did we complain? Well did we? Did we hell. We sat down in front of our computer screens with our salmon paste sandwiches and our mugs of bovril pressing the F5 key until our fingers bled, just waiting for that elusive £20 loan part in some provincial furniture retailer on the verge of bankruptcy to magically appear only to see it disappear again before our very eyes.
Ahh I miss those days.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 2, 2014 9:59:05 GMT
Duane Dibley Eh?? Someone say bananas? Oh! .......... errr! Keep taking the tablets... you know it makes sense!
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Nov 2, 2014 10:04:23 GMT
The new site is excellent for getting your added money and repayments earning rapidly. Having set up targets for lots of good loans already running, I have doubled my investment recently and now have a wide diversification, as any spare cash has been allocated seconds after it becomes available. It is also good to know that you can almost certainly liquidate something immediately and with no cost should you have a sudden unexpected need to withdraw funds. This makes Assetz much more attractive than some other competing sites.
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