registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 15, 2015 21:09:55 GMT
Related to this discussion about CCJs and timeliness etc, I've been wondering about something.
Assume for a moment that there are people out there who are better, for some reason, at determining when a company is in trouble. Assume that they then look to offload relevant loan parts on the SM.
Shouldn't we have a list of such sellers? We might buy something, because it looks good on a yield or discount basis, only to find that it was sold by somebody "known to be good at selling duffers". I'd like to be able to put these pieces straight back on the SM in the hope that autobid will pick them up.
Having said this I am not sure how ethical it is. All normal arguments apply.....
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 15, 2015 23:15:31 GMT
Just out of curiosity, is Flawed Confidentiality even required to disclose (to everyone) the usernames of buyers in the pm and that of sellers (post purchase to the buyers) in the sm? It's sometimes interesting to see this information but it’s not clear to me why FC discloses usernames at all. That has always puzzled me. I suppose the two parties to a contract need to be identified to each other - that is the borrower and the lenders who hold their loan parts, and the two lenders who buy and sell a loan part on the SM. But why 'all bids' has to be available to everyone with the names of each bidder rather eludes me. In the old days there was also a box on the summary page, I think, which gave the details of the last three bids made on the platform pm - with the names of the bidders. There would be much less muttering if the names of bidders on the pm were not given (and much less fun of course).
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Aug 16, 2015 0:04:36 GMT
It would be nice to know the identity of sellers on the SM before purchase, simply so I could deliberately avoid some of the more greedy flippers. I was trying to work out whether I suffered greater losses from loan parts bought on the SM compared to the PM, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Probably because I'm more cautious about what I buy on the SM.
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coop
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Post by coop on Aug 16, 2015 7:58:30 GMT
Ooer it's all gone a bit cloak and dagger round here recently hasn't it?
It's a shame we can't speak openly and honestly without fear or favour in case we name/shame/offend borrowers/lenders; half the time I'm left second guessing who/what is being talked about.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 16, 2015 8:07:27 GMT
I think, Coop, that it is concern over forum rules/ manners that causes forumites to refrain from identifying lenders as well as borrowers. I was wondering who 'she' might be, but not enough to look at all the E loans to work it out.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 16, 2015 8:10:38 GMT
It would be nice to know the identity of sellers on the SM before purchase, simply so I could deliberately avoid some of the more greedy flippers.
Does it matter who's selling a part on the SM? If they're a "more greedy flipper", then surely the price is higher than you'd want to pay anyway? If the price is acceptable, then they can't be that greedy...
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Aug 16, 2015 8:14:43 GMT
It would be nice to know the identity of sellers on the SM before purchase, simply so I could deliberately avoid some of the more greedy flippers.
Does it matter who's selling a part on the SM? If they're a "more greedy flipper", then surely the price is higher than you'd want to pay anyway? If the price is acceptable, then they can't be that greedy... I was more thinking of greed in terms of assimilating (almost) entire E-rated loans at 5 bids a second.
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Post by goldservice on Aug 16, 2015 8:25:00 GMT
Such bot bidders are easy to identify from the All bids tab and can be referred to by our usual modest method of ba***** etc. Could we then boycott their other parts? Not without guessing who is selling those other parts. Sometimes it can be inferred by buying one part and seeing the seller. Then we would have to assume that other parts of the same value and premium are theirs and boycott them - perhaps not a very accurate method.
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Aug 16, 2015 11:11:03 GMT
Such bot bidders are easy to identify from the All bids tab and can be referred to by our usual modest method of ba***** etc. Could we then boycott their other parts? Not without guessing who is selling those other parts. Sometimes it can be inferred by buying one part and seeing the seller. Then we would have to assume that other parts of the same value and premium are theirs and boycott them - perhaps not a very accurate method. You don't have any proof as to which other users are bots unless they declare the matter themselves or unless you have obtained information by questionable means which should see you banned from FC. How do you know that others are not following your own strategy but with more capital?
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Post by goldservice on Aug 16, 2015 11:34:55 GMT
I was assuming that a bidder who is bidding several times a second may be using a bot because I don't know of any way to bid manually as fast as that. And such rapid bidding shows up in the time stamps in All bids.
Of course, all very fast bidders may be bots but not all bots will bid fast.
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Aug 16, 2015 11:52:43 GMT
As discussed on other threads the bid rates for manual bidders can be surprisingly high.
There may be a case for FC making bids anonymous, as is the case for secondary market sales, and as has been done on AC. It is all too easy for others to make (often incorrect) inferences based upon bidding/selling behaviour of other bidders/underwriters. On FC it seems more extraordinary as there is so much activity taking place with there having been no time for any fundamental analysis (not that such would necessarily help) and some large flippers appear to sell indiscriminately so are a poor guide.
FWIW, I tend to just use the 'Bid Summary' view and not look at who (or what) is doing what.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Aug 16, 2015 15:16:55 GMT
I think, Coop, that it is concern over forum rules/ manners that causes forumites to refrain from identifying lenders as well as borrowers. I was wondering who 'she' might be, but not enough to look at all the E loans to work it out. 'She' was Biddy, (or occasionally Shelob), if you were referring to my post. Her forum reading skills are not of the highest (but better than her typing). FWIW, the naming /shaming of mass sellers on the SM was one of the many ideas put forward for discouraging greedy flipping, while still allowing ordinary ("less well capitalised") folks to trade as normal. It went into the usual Fully Circular waste suggestion bin. I do find it weird that I am told who I bought from/sold to, but not until it is too late to do anything with the information - worst of all worlds.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 16, 2015 18:48:16 GMT
One good reason for keeping the bidders visible is to make the intervention of the platform through FCPF visible.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Aug 17, 2015 13:15:13 GMT
Ooh, 15041 - E and £214,600. It was a C last time they had a loan.
Could this be the first that doesn't hit MBR?
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Post by nickthefool on Aug 17, 2015 13:23:39 GMT
Ooh, 15041 - E and £214,600. It was a C last time they had a loan.
Could this be the first that doesn't hit MBR? I reckon it'll be at MBR before the end of the day. Or by tomorrow at the latest.
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