ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 21, 2016 17:56:41 GMT
Yep, I've also noticed that after the Bedfordshire loan, the less appealing loans have hung around for longer. Last night I also saw the superyacht and (from memory) PBL4a hang around for at least an hour. We're not talking days though so the proverbial muck has certainly not hit the fan..... yet. I don't think there is anything wrong with investing in short dated (or negative loans) per se. For instance: - Loan 6 and the yacht have a very low LTV; - We know 4a and 4b are too be relaunched by SS; and - others like 27 and 36 have clear exit/refinancing strategies. Having been with SS for over a year, my problem is that as older loans mature/repay, the amount I get in newer loans via PF (the 'replacement rate') isn't enough to maintain the size of my overall holding in SS - I don't game the system and have no real desire to spend says on the SM trying to beat others in picking up small bits and pieces - as such I forsee my overall investments in SS going down and the funds going to some other platforms instead If I am understanding this correctly this will be of great benefit to the rest of us because your holdings can be spread between other lenders who would like to invest more. The way I see it is that through P2P we are earning money, so, some amount of work is needed. I work in an industry where micro earnings from various streams is considered normal. Thus I am very happy in lending relatively small amounts. (perhaps not pence.)
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goopy
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Post by goopy on Feb 21, 2016 18:10:45 GMT
I don't think there is anything wrong with investing in short dated (or negative loans) per se. For instance: - Loan 6 and the yacht have a very low LTV; - We know 4a and 4b are too be relaunched by SS; and - others like 27 and 36 have clear exit/refinancing strategies. Having been with SS for over a year, my problem is that as older loans mature/repay, the amount I get in newer loans via PF (the 'replacement rate') isn't enough to maintain the size of my overall holding in SS - I don't game the system and have no real desire to spend says on the SM trying to beat others in picking up small bits and pieces - as such I forsee my overall investments in SS going down and the funds going to some other platforms instead If I am understanding this correctly this will be of great benefit to the rest of us because your holdings can be spread between other lenders who would like to invest more. The way I see it is that through P2P we are earning money, so, some amount of work is needed. I work in an industry where micro earnings from various streams is considered normal. Thus I am very happy in lending relatively small amounts. (perhaps not pence.) I totally agree ablender. I find it staggering that for a 12% return a lot of people on this site aren't prepared to put in a little effort. Still, all the more for us eh 
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on Feb 21, 2016 18:13:23 GMT
If I am understanding this correctly this will be of great benefit to the rest of us because your holdings can be spread between other lenders who would like to invest more. The way I see it is that through P2P we are earning money, so, some amount of work is needed. Not necessarily, as I am not putting my existing holdings up for sale - simply making the point that the allocation method for loans effectively means I now need to look at other platforms if I want to keep the same amount invested in P2P overall -since the chances of being able to do so on SS are now less then they used to be. Some work is fine, but the amount of work it would take on the SM to get to the relevant average holding/loan makes it not practical for me. But yes, the increasing hassle of dealing with the SM has encouraged me to avoid it which means others may have more success bidding on parts/trying to beat the bots.. (*and by choice I don't want to be massively overweight in large new loans on the assumption I can sell down in future)
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 21, 2016 18:19:01 GMT
Yep, I've also noticed that after the Bedfordshire loan, the less appealing loans have hung around for longer. Last night I also saw the superyacht and (from memory) PBL4a hang around for at least an hour. We're not talking days though so the proverbial muck has certainly not hit the fan..... yet. I don't think there is anything wrong with investing in short dated (or negative loans) per se. For instance: - Loan 6 and the yacht have a very low LTV; - We know 4a and 4b are too be relaunched by SS; and - others like 27 and 36 have clear exit/refinancing strategies. Having been with SS for over a year, my problem is that as older loans mature/repay, the amount I get in newer loans via PF (the 'replacement rate') isn't enough to maintain the size of my overall holding in SS - I don't game the system and have no real desire to spend says on the SM trying to beat others in picking up small bits and pieces - as such I forsee my overall investments in SS going down and the funds going to some other platforms instead I completely agree with your first remark; I'm not saying that all negative loans are bad; some including the ones you have listed are fine (well done BTW for doing your DD!  ). All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people all to willing to invest in loans with negative duration and have done no DD. That's fine for now because the SM is very liquid; but in the unpredictable future if the SM starts to fill up with £100,000s or even millions of negative loans that don't move, then these investors are going to find it hard to get rid of negative loans. AND... because of the above point, is the very reason that I don't touch negative loans. Not because they are bad loans, just because I know that if I need access to my money in the future, and the SM has stagnated then I'm going to find it very hard to sell those negative loans. That negative term puts people off, and (it is of my opinion) that most investors don't actually do any DD, so regardless or not if the loan is good (good LTV, or waiting to be renewed) it ain't going to sell! For your last point; well that's your opinion. Personally, I think a little bit of work and patience is required to gain a 12% return. If you find a platform where you get do get a 12% return and require little to no work let; please do let us know! 
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on Feb 21, 2016 18:23:56 GMT
I totally agree ablender. I find it staggering that for a 12% return a lot of people on this site aren't prepared to put in a little effort. Still, all the more for us eh Goopy, I should make it clear I am not opposed too to effort to invest money at 12% - just that SS isn't the only platform or avenue available to do so - and the harder it is on this platform makes one look to alternatives. I guess it also comes down to how free time you have and how willing one is to sit over the SS site hoping a large part comes up on the SM rather than small ones - and trying to be the first to beat the anti bot measures On the other hand, I agree with you that some of the posts I have seen on the board - from people who have only recently started using SS and who seem to believe they have some god given right to invest however much they want on the SM - and that SS should change the system until they are able to - are well OTT.
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Post by supernumerary on Feb 21, 2016 18:50:09 GMT
...that some of the posts I have seen on the board - from people who have only recently started using SS and who seem to believe they have some god given right to invest however much they want on the SM - and that SS should change the system until they are able to - are well OTT. Consequently their whims have to be met... 
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goopy
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Post by goopy on Feb 21, 2016 18:56:58 GMT
I totally agree ablender. I find it staggering that for a 12% return a lot of people on this site aren't prepared to put in a little effort. Still, all the more for us eh Goopy, I should make it clear I am not opposed too to effort to invest money at 12% - just that SS isn't the only platform or avenue available to do so - and the harder it is on this platform makes one look to alternatives. I guess it also comes down to how free time you have and how willing one is to sit over the SS site hoping a large part comes up on the SM rather than small ones - and trying to be the first to beat the anti bot measures On the other hand, I agree with you that some of the posts I have seen on the board - from people who have only recently started using SS and who seem to believe they have some god given right to invest however much they want on the SM - and that SS should change the system until they are able to - are well OTT. I'm new to this site gt94sss2 so I'm basing my comments on what I've seen over the past few weeks. I would however like to say that I too have investments on other sites where you can make an investment without being quick with your fingers, the difference with the other sites is that the SM is nowhere near as liquid as on this site and once you have made your investment you usually have to see it through to the end. Personally I think that the ease at which you can sell an investment (at the moment) is worth putting in a little extra effort and if you save your effort until the time around when a new loan has been launched then it's not that difficult to build your portfolio.
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ben
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Post by ben on Feb 21, 2016 19:08:42 GMT
The secondary market is a victim of its own success, it was never designed to be used as option for diversification was only designed to be used if you wanted to leave a loan early. At the moment the only way to quieten down the secondary would be to charge then people would only use it if they wanted to leave a loan for whatever reason rather then just because they brought far more then they ever wanted in the hope they could make a few months interest on it then sell it on
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goopy
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Post by goopy on Feb 21, 2016 19:17:15 GMT
The secondary market is a victim of its own success, it was never designed to be used as option for diversification was only designed to be used if you wanted to leave a loan early. At the moment the only way to quieten down the secondary would be to charge then people would only use it if they wanted to leave a loan for whatever reason rather then just because they brought far more then they ever wanted in the hope they could make a few months interest on it then sell it on If it aint broke don't fix it! The SM as it is now, I would suggest, is a major attraction for a lot of investors. As far as I'm concerned it is one of the things that makes this site a lot more appealing than others.
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ben
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Post by ben on Feb 21, 2016 19:29:29 GMT
The secondary market is a victim of its own success, it was never designed to be used as option for diversification was only designed to be used if you wanted to leave a loan early. At the moment the only way to quieten down the secondary would be to charge then people would only use it if they wanted to leave a loan for whatever reason rather then just because they brought far more then they ever wanted in the hope they could make a few months interest on it then sell it on If it aint broke don't fix it! The SM as it is now, I would suggest, is a major attraction for a lot of investors. As far as I'm concerned it is one of the things that makes this site a lot more appealing than others. At the moment it is not a great issue but if it carries on the problem will be with the new loans is that if the bigger investor can not get what they want as a lot of middle investors are gaming the system (ie putting on more then they normally would and hold onto it for a period before selling) eventually the bigger investors will go and the big loans will not fill and the secondary market will become a lot less fluid
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goopy
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Post by goopy on Feb 21, 2016 19:40:20 GMT
If it aint broke don't fix it! The SM as it is now, I would suggest, is a major attraction for a lot of investors. As far as I'm concerned it is one of the things that makes this site a lot more appealing than others. The problem is with the new loans is that if the bigger investor can not get what they want as a lot of middle investors are gaming the system (ie putting on more then they normally would and hold onto it for a period before selling) eventually the bigger investors will go and the big loans will not fill and the secondary market will become a lot less fluid I'm sure the larger investors will take what they can. The fact that they don't get as much as they want may mean that they invest on other platforms as well as SS but I'm sure they will invest as much as they can on SS as the liquidity of the SM will be as much of an attraction for them as it is for me.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 21, 2016 20:13:02 GMT
If I am understanding this correctly this will be of great benefit to the rest of us because your holdings can be spread between other lenders who would like to invest more. The way I see it is that through P2P we are earning money, so, some amount of work is needed. Not necessarily, as I am not putting my existing holdings up for sale - simply making the point that the allocation method for loans effectively means I now need to look at other platforms if I want to keep the same amount invested in P2P overall -since the chances of being able to do so on SS are now less then they used to be. Some work is fine, but the amount of work it would take on the SM to get to the relevant average holding/loan makes it not practical for me. But yes, the increasing hassle of dealing with the SM has encouraged me to avoid it which means others may have more success bidding on parts/trying to beat the bots.. (*and by choice I don't want to be massively overweight in large new loans on the assumption I can sell down in future) I do understand that you will not put your current holding on the SM (although it would be nice to), but the very fact that you are confirming that at least you will not be competing for more on the SM means there will be more for us anyway. Don't you think so?
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 21, 2016 20:16:18 GMT
I totally agree ablender. I find it staggering that for a 12% return a lot of people on this site aren't prepared to put in a little effort. Still, all the more for us eh Goopy, I should make it clear I am not opposed too to effort to invest money at 12% - just that SS isn't the only platform or avenue available to do so - and the harder it is on this platform makes one look to alternatives. I guess it also comes down to how free time you have and how willing one is to sit over the SS site hoping a large part comes up on the SM rather than small ones - and trying to be the first to beat the anti bot measures On the other hand, I agree with you that some of the posts I have seen on the board - from people who have only recently started using SS and who seem to believe they have some god given right to invest however much they want on the SM - and that SS should change the system until they are able to - are well OTT. gt - I am always looking for more platforms to diversify. Will you share the platforms which you have in mind? I am looking for platforms which will give me around 12% (or more) with comparable risk level to SS.
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ben
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Post by ben on Feb 21, 2016 20:20:46 GMT
The problem is with the new loans is that if the bigger investor can not get what they want as a lot of middle investors are gaming the system (ie putting on more then they normally would and hold onto it for a period before selling) eventually the bigger investors will go and the big loans will not fill and the secondary market will become a lot less fluid I'm sure the larger investors will take what they can. The fact that they don't get as much as they want may mean that they invest on other platforms as well as SS but I'm sure they will invest as much as they can on SS as the liquidity of the SM will be as much of an attraction for them as it is for me. I sure they will carry on investing but they may leave the big money hanging around to invest on SS, it may go somewhere else so when SS have a loan coming up they may not have that amount just sat there waiting to be invested
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 21, 2016 20:22:42 GMT
If it aint broke don't fix it! The SM as it is now, I would suggest, is a major attraction for a lot of investors. As far as I'm concerned it is one of the things that makes this site a lot more appealing than others. At the moment it is not a great issue but if it carries on the problem will be with the new loans is that if the bigger investor can not get what they want as a lot of middle investors are gaming the system (ie putting on more then they normally would and hold onto it for a period before selling) eventually the bigger investors will go and the big loans will not fill and the secondary market will become a lot less fluid Ben, do you really think that it is the "middle investors" who are gaming the system most? I think there is much more effect from the bigger investors. I base my opinion on the fact that it was the big hitters who objected to the bottom-up allocation as first projected for the pipeline and for the bottom-up allocation system for loans up to £1m pounds currently in use.
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). All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people all to willing to invest in loans with negative duration and have done no DD. That's fine for now because the SM is very liquid; but in the unpredictable future if the SM starts to fill up with £100,000s or even millions of negative loans that don't move, then these investors are going to find it hard to get rid of negative loans.
