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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 9, 2016 16:15:43 GMT
Oh dear, I bailed out of ZOPA when they invalidated their own name by deciding agreement didn't need any zone after all, but I wandered into the forum occasionally to see the old faces (and giggle about the latest foot-shooting by the folks who were sort of P2P founders, and had to work REALLY HARD to screw it all up).
Never mind guys and gals (and robots), there is just as much fun to be had here (and you can look and see what the competition is doing .. you know, 13% secured loans with instant interest, over on ABLRate .. or examples of how to not run a forum (all posts quoting another post shall vanish forever) .. over at Forum C*ckups .. all without even leaving this one website. And the website (including jokes) is practically guaranteed to be here tomo .................. % no carrier %
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 9, 2016 16:32:54 GMT
Got an email from Zopa today, 'would I recommend them to a friend', bad timing or what.
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james
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Post by james on Feb 9, 2016 16:33:15 GMT
Yes, Zopa have intimated they will open their non-safeguard D and E markets to retail lenders. If they do, they will need to do a whole lot better with their new loan book to enable people to monitor these loans, and the bad debts that will be generated. Just out of interest - what do you mean by "monitor these loans"? What is involved in loan monitoring and what do you achieve by doing it? P.S. No sarcasm intended, I'm genuinely intrigued. In the case of Zopa you can look at the debt collection activities but because you can't sell any loan where there has ever been a late payment the information isn't particularly actionable at individual loan level. This contrasts with a place like Bondora where you can sell even after default, setting your desired offering markup/discount. Markups can be appropriate for some defaulted loans because of accrued charges. No fee and you don't get a forced capital loss when selling a current loan, you can probably sell at a small profit. Don't go using Bondora, it has enough disadvantages vs alternatives that it isn't worth using at present, as you'll see if you look at the section about them here. But they do do some things excellently and this is one of them. The generally excellent combination of risk and reward that was around between three and a half and two years ago is no longer around.
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dave
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Post by dave on Feb 9, 2016 17:32:14 GMT
Got an email from Zopa today, 'would I recommend them to a friend', bad timing or what. me too ... 'zero' sent in return Dave
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Feb 9, 2016 18:07:22 GMT
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Feb 9, 2016 21:03:41 GMT
In the case of Zopa you can look at the debt collection activities but because you can't sell any loan where there has ever been a late payment the information isn't particularly actionable at individual loan level. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but Zopa have changed this to; you can sell a loan when it has caught up.
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james
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Post by james on Feb 9, 2016 23:05:27 GMT
In the case of Zopa you can look at the debt collection activities but because you can't sell any loan where there has ever been a late payment the information isn't particularly actionable at individual loan level. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but Zopa have changed this to; you can sell a loan when it has caught up. I think your're right, I zexited in '13, or at least tried to when I started getting force fed 4.1% 5yr loans. There was at least one or two problem loans in my book, but I sold them early '14 iirc and got my last few quid out. Might have changed when safeguard was introduced? Thanks, though unless more has changed than that you still can't sell a loan whose performance you don't like because Zopa doesn't provide a way to pick individual loans to sell and you can't sell it when it's late, which is when you'd want to sell it if trying to take action based on performance. The rules for Safeguard and non-Safeguard loans may well be different. For a buyer of a Safeguard loan the Safeguard fund protects them, while for a non-Safeguard loan someone has to pay or accept the Safeguard risk if the loan is sold to a buyer expecting to buy Safeguard loans.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Feb 10, 2016 8:30:20 GMT
while for a non-Safeguard loan someone has to pay or accept the Safeguard risk if the loan is sold to a buyer expecting to buy Safeguard loans. Again, like others I have not been active over here for a couple of years now so am not talking from personal experience but I'm pretty sure they also changed the rules such that any traded loans become Safeguarded for the purchaser.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Feb 10, 2016 8:44:04 GMT
while for a non-Safeguard loan someone has to pay or accept the Safeguard risk if the loan is sold to a buyer expecting to buy Safeguard loans. Again, like others I have not been active over here for a couple of years now so am not talking from personal experience but I'm pretty sure they also changed the rules such that any traded loans become Safeguarded for the purchaser. Yes that's correct, the exception being C&Y loans cannot be converted to SG when RRed (sold). I imagine the same will be true when/if D&E loans get traded, that they will be firmly outside of SG.
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spiral
Member of DD Central
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Post by spiral on Feb 10, 2016 8:49:54 GMT
Yes that's correct, the exception being C&Y loans cannot be converted to SG when RRed (sold). Again, not 100% certain, but I thought they even brought these under that umbrella. My thoughts are that the old opt in for these was removed and at that point they covered these also.
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james
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Post by james on Feb 10, 2016 9:09:02 GMT
while for a non-Safeguard loan someone has to pay or accept the Safeguard risk if the loan is sold to a buyer expecting to buy Safeguard loans. Again, like others I have not been active over here for a couple of years now so am not talking from personal experience but I'm pretty sure they also changed the rules such that any traded loans become Safeguarded for the purchaser. Yes, they did and their FAQ says so. Don't know who pays the Safeguard fund for that protection for the buyer though. Doesn't help with selling loans based on the status updates on them because to do that you need to be able to pick the loans you want to sell. At the moment Zopa's FAQ is still saying that you can't sell non-Safeguard loans if the borrower has ever missed a payment.
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Post by lrseimas on Feb 10, 2016 9:13:05 GMT
Just out of interest - what do you mean by "monitor these loans"? What is involved in loan monitoring and what do you achieve by doing it? P.S. No sarcasm intended, I'm genuinely intrigued. In the case of Zopa you can look at the debt collection activities but because you can't sell any loan where there has ever been a late payment the information isn't particularly actionable at individual loan level. This contrasts with a place like Bondora where you can sell even after default, setting your desired offering markup/discount. Markups can be appropriate for some defaulted loans because of accrued charges. No fee and you don't get a forced capital loss when selling a current loan, you can probably sell at a small profit. Don't go using Bondora, it has enough disadvantages vs alternatives that it isn't worth using at present, as you'll see if you look at the section about them here. But they do do some things excellently and this is one of them. The generally excellent combination of risk and reward that was around between three and a half and two years ago is no longer around. This is not accurate on couple of points: 1. All new investments in Zopa are safeguarded, which means that defaults have no real effect as long as there's enough funds in Safeguard. Hence tracking individual loans does not seem to make any sense at all. 2. Your point about not being able to sell loan that had late payments in incorrect. Safeguarded loans can be sold once they get back to normal payment schedule. This makes perfect sense to me - who would want to buy a late loan from you? With this in mind I feel my initial question is still unanswered - what do you achieve by monitoring individual loans?
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james
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Post by james on Feb 10, 2016 9:21:24 GMT
Those quote is not inaccurate, rather I was discussing the only cases where it would be likely to make sense to sell based on loan performance: loans without Safeguard cover. Zopa's FAQ still says that you can't sell such loans if there has ever been a missed payment and Ton ⓉⓞⓃ observes that you can't sell non-Safeguard C and Y loans at all. For loans with Safeguard cover there is no point in selling an individual loan based on loan performance, even if you could. And you can't because for neither Safeguard nor non-Safeguard loans can you pick which loans to sell. There can be a point in selling large batches of Safeguard loans, though, if it appears that the Safeguard fund will not have sufficient cover. So the answer to your question remains: you can't usefully act on the information but you can at least see what is happening so you know that something is happening, or not. |
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Post by lrseimas on Feb 10, 2016 9:57:38 GMT
In other words you don't really achieve anything - you can monitor individual loans but there is nothing you can do about them.
Regarding bad loans - let's say you could sell individual loans that are not performing to your expectation. I have couple of questions regarding this:
1. Who would buy these loans off you?
2. Would you say that platform that allows selling bad loans is adhering to the principles of responsible lending? This question relates to the buyer of you bad loan, not seller.
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Post by gricehead on Feb 10, 2016 10:34:37 GMT
There has been one case where I have been able to alert Zopa to information suggesting that a debtor was misleading them with regards to his lack of ability to pay. I'm not saying that Zopa or their agents used this information to make the debtor pay up, but the debtor did pay up.
That was non-safeguard, and pre anonymised borrower names. Once everything is safeguard and anonymised, there is little point in analysing loans, but we're not there yet.
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