james
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Post by james on Feb 10, 2016 10:39:21 GMT
In other words you don't really achieve anything - you can monitor individual loans but there is nothing you can do about them. Right, at least not at Zopa. Regarding bad loans - let's say you could sell individual loans that are not performing to your expectation. I have couple of questions regarding this: 1. Who would buy these loans off you? 2. Would you say that platform that allows selling bad loans is adhering to the principles of responsible lending? This question relates to the buyer of you bad loan, not seller. I've done quote a lot of selling of loans that are paying normally or late or even some that have defaulted at various places, notably Bondora and Ablrate (can't sell impaired at Ablrate). It's not uncommon for there to be buyers who are willing to accept a lower interest rate than the rate you originally got. That could be because they are paying lower or no income tax or because they just have more money to invest or are willing to accept a lower rate. To those you may well be able to sell at a capital profit. Or break -even or sometimes a small discount for loans that are not impaired, I've done it at each of those levels. For impaired loans similar considerations apply but in that case it's influenced by different people's views on whether in the future the loan will perform well or not, and perhaps by whether they can deduct loses from interest or not. There may also be penalties or costs that the borrower has to pay that can make late or defaulted loans more attractive by increasing the effective interest rate. I've sold a few defaulted loans at a 40% markup that still provided a buyer with over 90% expected return if the borrower repaid. In at least one case the borrower went on to make all capital, interest and penalty payments to fully repay and the buyer got that return. I've also sold at discounts of 20-50%. Depends on the specifics of the loan and what the borrower is doing. Yes, selling bad loans can be responsible lending when all relevant facts are available to buyer and seller at the time of the transaction. Opinions about debt recovery naturally vary and informed buyers and sellers can make deals based on varying expectations and varying tax rates or bad debt treatments that they are subject to. It's not an activity for buyers who do not wish to make such evaluations to participate in.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 10, 2016 10:53:19 GMT
There was a thread on the newly deceased forum about an apparent increase in late safeguarded loans, although you can't do anything about it keeping track of trends in lates and defaults may indicate changes in the type of loans being made and how exposed you want to be to them in the (unlikely) event of the safeguard fund not covering all defaults.
Maybe some of the recent Zopa forum threads should be resurrected on here?
Others I remember were:
Appearance of very low rate loans, and their impact on longterm rates.
Problems with the new MLB, usability, and information no longer available compared to the old MLB.
Problems with payment runs, with funds stuck in not offered.
Obviously I can't see the details of any of this any more and there were probably other threads that hadn't caught my attention.
Where's a squirrel when one needs one?
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Post by misotu on Feb 10, 2016 12:55:24 GMT
I emailed Zopa on Monday to complain that, although their email said the forum would close on Tuesday it was already closed by the time I received their email. Have had a response apologising, but unlike ZopaMat's post here, the email I received said sorry, our email should have said Tuesday and this was simple (sic) a mistake.No, Zopa, the email should have said "Monday". And should, for courtesy, have been sent some time well before closure really, otherwise the phrase "is already closed" was probably the thing to have. Unbelievable. The "Chief Marketing Officer" writes to apologise for an error. And repeats the error. Zopa comms just don't improve, do they?  |
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Post by misotu on Feb 10, 2016 13:01:15 GMT
In other words you don't really achieve anything - you can monitor individual loans but there is nothing you can do about them. True. But for those with pre-Safeguard bad debts having no information at all about the status of those debts would be unsatisfactory. There are some bad debts making regular payments - there are others that will never be cleared. It's not important post-Safeguard and wouldn't warrant development effort, but the old loanbook presented the information in a perfectly acceptable manner.
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ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Feb 10, 2016 19:01:30 GMT
Gosh, end of an era or what? I got no email - longish term lender and one of the top posters on the old forum to boot (although not for ages, I know), so was a bit of a surprise to be informed of the demise by another old-timer yesterday. Still, good to see some of the old lags popping up on this forum now. Must say, I couldn't be bothered with the zopa forum for quite a while, so it will be nice to have discussions shifted over here and have all matters p2p in one place. Like many others, I've had my zopa loan book in run-off for quite some time now, but there are probably still another couple of years to go, so I do pop in occasionally to see what's afoot. Welcome one and all to any posters transferring over here  |
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dave
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Post by dave on Feb 10, 2016 20:24:49 GMT
In the case of Zopa you can look at the debt collection activities but because you can't sell any loan where there has ever been a late payment the information isn't particularly actionable at individual loan level. This contrasts with a place like Bondora where you can sell even after default, setting your desired offering markup/discount. Markups can be appropriate for some defaulted loans because of accrued charges. No fee and you don't get a forced capital loss when selling a current loan, you can probably sell at a small profit. Don't go using Bondora, it has enough disadvantages vs alternatives that it isn't worth using at present, as you'll see if you look at the section about them here. But they do do some things excellently and this is one of them. The generally excellent combination of risk and reward that was around between three and a half and two years ago is no longer around. This is not accurate on couple of points: 1. All new investments in Zopa are safeguarded, which means that defaults have no real effect as long as there's enough funds in Safeguard. Hence tracking individual loans does not seem to make any sense at all. 2. Your point about not being able to sell loan that had late payments in incorrect. Safeguarded loans can be sold once they get back to normal payment schedule. This makes perfect sense to me - who would want to buy a late loan from you? With this in mind I feel my initial question is still unanswered - what do you achieve by monitoring individual loans? deleted: missing the crucial *safeguarded* - all mine predate this Dave
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Feb 10, 2016 20:49:42 GMT
A small point, It was stated that you could not sell specific Zopa loans. Please correct me where I'm wrong: but it was, I understand, possible to a degree when you were 'weekend fishing' for example, in that as soon as you saw a loan you didn't like or a series of loans, you had to withdraw all the money you were lending and then wait several days for the unwanted loan(s) to take it's place in your MLB then RR that same amount of loans. This was possible as the RR system tended to sell the last loans you acquired, so you could work backwards effectively selling unwanted loans from the most recent to the oldest, but you got stuck as soon as you got to one or more loans you wanted to keep. That was the theory, can anyone confirm if it worked and where my errors are?
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james
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Post by james on Feb 10, 2016 21:11:18 GMT
I think you're right that that was possible. It's also possible to exploit the rules about which loans Zopa chooses to sell to get something sold if it's close enough to the start of the list of things that they will try to sell, I think. Very limited workarounds that might apply sometimes, but possible if you get lucky about the loans on which you've got unlucky.
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bugs4me
Member of DD Central
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 10, 2016 23:01:39 GMT
Gosh, end of an era or what? I got no email - longish term lender and one of the top posters on the old forum to boot (although not for ages, I know), so was a bit of a surprise to be informed of the demise by another old-timer yesterday. Still, good to see some of the old lags popping up on this forum now. Must say, I couldn't be bothered with the zopa forum for quite a while, so it will be nice to have discussions shifted over here and have all matters p2p in one place. Like many others, I've had my zopa loan book in run-off for quite some time now, but there are probably still another couple of years to go, so I do pop in occasionally to see what's afoot. Welcome one and all to any posters transferring over here Read somewhere that the e-mail was restricted to only those that had posted on the forum during the past 6 months or so - that excluded me as I lost interest when Zopa seemed to go into a bubble after the institution(s) got involved - or that's how it seemed. Been in run-off for the past 15 months or so as there were greener pastures and Zopa IMO ignored it's core lenders. Then again, if I was an institution pumping in £XXXm I suppose I would want to call the shots and have the cream. Shame but it's their business so how they decide it should evolve is entirely their prerogative.
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Post by paulherring on Feb 11, 2016 11:09:54 GMT
I emailed Zopa on Monday to complain that, although their email said the forum would close on Tuesday it was already closed by the time I received their email. Have had a response apologising, More than I've had on the two emails I sent to them on Monday.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 11:41:57 GMT
Hi all, A number of users expressed an interest in accessing data from the Zopa Forum, so we have created a Read Only link that will allow users to access this information over the next two weeks until the end of February. Read Only Zopa Forum link - zopatemp.ipbhost.comWe hope this helps you access any information or links that you might like to use in the course of your lending. Thanks, Mat |
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 11, 2016 13:05:42 GMT
Hi all, A number of users expressed an interest in accessing data from the Zopa Forum, so we have created a Read Only link that will allow users to access this information over the next two weeks until the end of February. Read Only Zopa Forum link - zopatemp.ipbhost.com/ We hope this helps you access any information or links that you might like to use in the course of your lending. Thanks, Mat I get an ERROR 'Sorry, we couldn't find that' from that link.
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Post by wiseclerk on Feb 11, 2016 13:09:50 GMT
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 11, 2016 13:14:03 GMT
Thanks, that works.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 13:47:17 GMT
Sorry about that, there was an extra space at the end of the link, all corrected now.
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