webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Mar 3, 2016 22:09:38 GMT
In the OP the limit is for the SM only. The interaction with prefunding which is for the PM is that if after the launch of a loan where you have a prefund allocation (and a negative balance to clear) then buying on the SM will only be possible upto your credit limit. One of us has got it completely wrong. I don't understand how you can interpret it that way. ISTM quite clear: SM - limit is cash + holdings PM - limit is cash + £10K
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Mar 3, 2016 22:19:12 GMT
Clearly SS are not limiting the amount of pre-fund that can be requested because I can still enter a large number (unless this is functionality that they are yet to implement). So what happens in the case where I apply for £100,000 (with no cash in my account) and the loan (assume over £1m) is four times over-subscribed? Do they say I get 25% of £100,000 = £25,000 - but my credit limit is £10,000 so I'm restricted to this? (I gamed the system) Or do they say I should only be applying for £10,000 so I get 25% of this = £2,500? (But SS hasn't let me use my full credit limit) Or do they do something else? Or does SS really mean that everyone has at least a £10,000 INPL for pre-funding as suggested by GSV3MIaC ? As I said my guess is that you would get £2500, but they could be more severe and give you nothing. I am sure that they have not omitted "at least" - this would make no sense. If they are going to try to stop you over pre-funding in the first place (which I very much doubt due to its complexity) they obviously have not done it yet. I suppose, for completeness, there is one other unlikely possibility - that they are leaving it to lenders' honesty and relying on their final sentence. Only SS can explain the detail but the outline seems clear to me.
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Mar 3, 2016 22:21:51 GMT
PM - limit is cash + £10K Sorry to labour the point webwiz , but do you mean the limit here to be your maximum pre-funding request (you may be allocated less) or do you mean the limit to be the maximum you are allocated (but you could have requested much more)? In my first post in this thread I assumed it was the former but I ignored the cash element (as mine is usually zero). My point in my first post was that this might be a bit too restrictive for a very large loan which might see a lot of residual funding then dumped on the SM. Edit: Sorry, I seem to have crossed with your reply above...
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 3, 2016 22:23:32 GMT
I tend to agree with webwiz . PF is as before, limit is which ever is greater of 10k or portfolio + cash, so you can set that for loan However, the max INPL is 10k so you have to make sure you have the cash in your account if you have prefunded higher. Given that SS are giving 24hrs notice that means on the day of the loan you have to transfer either the balance of cash or sell loan parts (short term reduction in portfolio size wouldnt count against you) or a combination of both. Then when SS are ready to allocate anyone who has more than 10k without the supporting balance has their PF reduced to the relevant level supported by their available cash +10k |
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Post by meledor on Mar 3, 2016 22:28:38 GMT
It's really quite simple ISTM. The £10K is just the maximum amount of free credit that you can get. If you want to prefund more than £10K you have to deposit cash for the difference. SS have not said what would happen if they released two loans at the same time nor exactly how and when the £10K limit will be applied. I imagine it might simply substitute the cash + £10K figure for the actual pre-fund if that is bigger when it is put into the allocation process. But it could be more severe and simply reject pre-funds which are over the limit. Or they might try to apply the limit at entry time and maintain it, but that seems very complicated. , I'm not trying to disagree with you, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. Clearly SS are not limiting the amount of pre-fund that can be requested because I can still enter a large number (unless this is functionality that they are yet to implement). So what happens in the case where I apply for £100,000 (with no cash in my account) and the loan (assume over £1m) is four times over-subscribed? Do they say I get 25% of £100,000 = £25,000 - but my credit limit is £10,000 so I'm restricted to this? (I gamed the system) Or do they say I should only be applying for £10,000 so I get 25% of this = £2,500? (But SS hasn't let me use my full credit limit) Or do they do something else? Or does SS really mean that everyone has at least a £10,000 INPL for pre-funding as suggested by GSV3MIaC ?
If you apply for £100,000 then your existing holdings must be approx £100,000 under existing prefunding limits. So why do you think your credit limit would be only £10,000 for secondary market purchases?
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Mar 3, 2016 22:31:13 GMT
So if you want a pre-fund above £10,000 you have to stick cash in your account or sell loan parts to fund your allocation but you don't know what the allocation will be. And you may well end up getting less than £10,000 anyway. And then you may have sold loan parts you would have wanted to keep had you known your allocation would be lower. Have I got that right?
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jimc99
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Post by jimc99 on Mar 3, 2016 22:32:33 GMT
INPL.....means what?  ? |
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Mar 3, 2016 22:32:38 GMT
webwiz , I'm not trying to disagree with you, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. Clearly SS are not limiting the amount of pre-fund that can be requested because I can still enter a large number (unless this is functionality that they are yet to implement). So what happens in the case where I apply for £100,000 (with no cash in my account) and the loan (assume over £1m) is four times over-subscribed? Do they say I get 25% of £100,000 = £25,000 - but my credit limit is £10,000 so I'm restricted to this? (I gamed the system) Or do they say I should only be applying for £10,000 so I get 25% of this = £2,500? (But SS hasn't let me use my full credit limit) Or do they do something else? Or does SS really mean that everyone has at least a £10,000 INPL for pre-funding as suggested by GSV3MIaC ?
If you apply for £100,000 then your existing holdings must be approx £100,000 under existing prefunding limits. So why do you think your credit limit would be only £10,000 for secondary market purchases?
I was talking about the pre-fund limit, not the SM.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 3, 2016 22:32:57 GMT
INPL.....means what? ? Invest now pay later I'm with sam i am with this one; the more I read SS OP, the more I can't quite understand "EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit per pre-fund loan including new investors"; I think this need some clarification from savingstream
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jimc99
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Post by jimc99 on Mar 3, 2016 22:34:17 GMT
Thanks!!
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 3, 2016 22:35:07 GMT
webwiz , I'm not trying to disagree with you, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. Clearly SS are not limiting the amount of pre-fund that can be requested because I can still enter a large number (unless this is functionality that they are yet to implement). So what happens in the case where I apply for £100,000 (with no cash in my account) and the loan (assume over £1m) is four times over-subscribed? Do they say I get 25% of £100,000 = £25,000 - but my credit limit is £10,000 so I'm restricted to this? (I gamed the system) Or do they say I should only be applying for £10,000 so I get 25% of this = £2,500? (But SS hasn't let me use my full credit limit) Or do they do something else? Or does SS really mean that everyone has at least a £10,000 INPL for pre-funding as suggested by GSV3MIaC ?
If you apply for £100,000 then your existing holdings must be approx £100,000 under existing prefunding limits. So why do you think your credit limit would be only a £10,000 for secondary market purchases?
We're not talking about SM purchases, that bit is quite clear in the OP. You can buy cash plus portfolio worth of parts on the SM using INPL, otherwise the examples given wouldnt make sense. Its the 10k limit for INPL for prefunded loans that is unclear.
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Post by meledor on Mar 3, 2016 22:35:15 GMT
If you apply for £100,000 then your existing holdings must be approx £100,000 under existing prefunding limits. So why do you think your credit limit would be only £10,000 for secondary market purchases?
I was talking about the pre-fund limit, not the SM.
The pre-fund limits haven't changed as far as I can see.
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Mar 3, 2016 22:35:50 GMT
I'm going to call time out (for me) before I go round in circles again.
I'll listen with interest to what anyone else wants to say and maybe SS will come back with some clarification.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 3, 2016 22:45:34 GMT
It's really quite simple ISTM. The £10K is just the maximum amount of free credit that you can get. If you want to prefund more than £10K you have to deposit cash for the difference. SS have not said what would happen if they released two loans at the same time nor exactly how and when the £10K limit will be applied. I imagine it might simply substitute the cash + £10K figure for the actual pre-fund if that is bigger when it is put into the allocation process. But it could be more severe and simply reject pre-funds which are over the limit. Or they might try to apply the limit at entry time and maintain it, but that seems very complicated. I disagree about how clear it is, and what the £10k actually refers to. If it is "free credit" then it has no direct link to prefund limit .. i.e. if I prefund £20k on a sub £1m loan I am likely to get £500 or so, so my 'credit' (or debit, or whatever - what I owe SS) ain't ever going to be more than £500. If it's actual prefund limit, that's different (right now I can prefund the £20k, if I have that much in my account .. if I get £15k allocated, I need to transfer the £15k .. is that the point at which SS says 'oops, you owe us £10k and are only allowed to owe us £10k?). I'm not looking for a lawyer / accountant answer, I just wanna know what the £10k limit actually refers to, because right now it is not clear. Can I prefund £20k as long as I only get half allocated? Does it actually have nothing to do with prefund, just with my account balance?? I'm with Sam on this one .. my head hurts. 8>.
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Post by meledor on Mar 3, 2016 22:45:34 GMT
There seems to be suggestion by some that prefunding is now limited to £10k. I read the OP to say that like PM prefunding everyone has at least a £10k limit. In other words prefunding has not changed but merely the £10k minimum for INPL SM purchases is the same as for prefunding.
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