treeman
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Post by treeman on Mar 3, 2016 22:51:30 GMT
Agree with sam i am and GSV3MIaC - I'm properly confused now...... or properly dense ....... AIUI the SM explanation in the OP is very clear (the examples eliminate ambiguity). Can't imagine anyone not understanding. However ....... the PF bit can clearly be interpreted in different ways !  The more of these posts I read, the less I seem to get it. I can still set all my PFs above £10k, so how am I limited (" EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit" ) to 10k ? Please savingstream could you clarify the new PF INPL rules ? |
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 3, 2016 22:52:09 GMT
There seems to be suggestion by some that prefunding is now limited to £10k. I read the OP to say that like PM prefunding everyone has at least a £10k limit. In other words the £10k minimum will the same for INPL SM purchases as it is for prefunding. There is no suggestion; that is exactly how SS has written their OP... > EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit per pre-fund loan including new investors.Furthermore, as written, this rule applies to INPL pre-fund loans; and is not connected to the earlier rules regarding INPL in the SM.... So if SS post is correct, we all only have £10,000 for each pre-fund loan, and then we would have to have credit in our account to cover any further amounts. Now, I'm fine with that because I never pre-fund more than £10,000 on an individual loan, but I'm sure the BH wouldn't be unhappy.
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Post by meledor on Mar 3, 2016 23:03:51 GMT
There seems to be suggestion by some that prefunding is now limited to £10k. I read the OP to say that like PM prefunding everyone has at least a £10k limit. In other words the £10k minimum will the same for INPL SM purchases as it is for prefunding. There is no suggestion; that is exactly how SS has written their OP... > EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit per pre-fund loan including new investors.Furthermore, as written, this rule applies to INPL pre-fund loans; and is not connected to the earlier rules regarding INPL in the SM.... So if SS post is correct, we only have £10,000 for each pre-fund loan, and then we have to have credit in our account to cover any further amounts. I'm fine with that because I never pre-fund more than £10,000 on an individual loan, but I'm sure the BH would be unhappy.
I am reading it as:
EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit as per pre-fund loans including new investors.
SS perhaps could have avoided the ambiguity, but as the post is clearly about SM purchases, the context must determine the meaning.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 3, 2016 23:08:10 GMT
Agree with sam i am and GSV3MIaC - I'm properly confused now...... or properly dense ....... AIUI the SM explanation in the OP is very clear (the examples eliminate ambiguity). Can't imagine anyone not understanding. However ....... the PF bit can clearly be interpreted in different ways ! The more of these posts I read, the less I seem to get it. I can still set all my PFs above £10k, so how am I limited (" EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit" ) to 10k ? Please savingstream could you clarify the new PF INPL rules ? You are not limited on how much you can prefund but by the deficit that can create, a max 10k. So if you prefunded 50k and were allocated 20k, you would need to have 10k already available. What SS appear to be doing is pushing people to pay for part of their PF allocations in advance if they are likely to be greater than 10k. Given that the timescales for working hour deposits and withdrawals are now hours rather than a day this is now realistic. Now if SS could just add the 'at least' we could all let out a collective 'ah ha now it makes sense'
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 3, 2016 23:12:15 GMT
There is no suggestion; that is exactly how SS has written their OP... > EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit per pre-fund loan including new investors.Furthermore, as written, this rule applies to INPL pre-fund loans; and is not connected to the earlier rules regarding INPL in the SM.... So if SS post is correct, we only have £10,000 for each pre-fund loan, and then we have to have credit in our account to cover any further amounts. I'm fine with that because I never pre-fund more than £10,000 on an individual loan, but I'm sure the BH would be unhappy.
I am reading it as:
EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit as per pre-fund loans including new investors.
SS perhaps could have avoided the ambiguity, but as the post is clearly about SM purchases, the context must determine the meaning.
The post is about INPL, it doesnt specify SM in the title, and that affects both PM & SM so both are covered cooling_dude we need a poll, which interpretation is correct 
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dawn
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Post by dawn on Mar 3, 2016 23:45:21 GMT
Agree with sam i am and GSV3MIaC - I'm properly confused now...... or properly dense ....... AIUI the SM explanation in the OP is very clear (the examples eliminate ambiguity). Can't imagine anyone not understanding. However ....... the PF bit can clearly be interpreted in different ways ! The more of these posts I read, the less I seem to get it. I can still set all my PFs above £10k, so how am I limited (" EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit" ) to 10k ? Please savingstream could you clarify the new PF INPL rules ? You are not limited on how much you can prefund but by the deficit that can create, a max 10k. So if you prefunded 50k and were allocated 20k, you would need to have 10k already available. What SS appear to be doing is pushing people to pay for part of their PF allocations in advance if they are likely to be greater than 10k. Given that the timescales for working hour deposits and withdrawals are now hours rather than a day this is now realistic. Now if SS could just add the 'at least' we could all let out a collective 'ah ha now it makes sense' That is how I read it - you can prefund up to as much as your personal limit allows, but when a loan is launched you won't be able to go more than £10k into the negative. If your prefund would take you more than £10k overdrawn then you won't be allocated the bit between that and your prefund amount. If you want more then you will need to transfer it before the loan is launched (or use the SM afterwards). I think ilmoro's example above helps to make it clear. I think the words 'at least' are missing on purpose - I read it is as everyone has a flat rate of not being able to go overdrawn by more than £10k for any individual pre-funded loan at the time of its launch. Once it is on the SM the rules about size of investments plus cash apply. I think that is why 'EVERYONE' is in capitals in the original announcement. SS have decided to introduce these rules based on what they have seen happening (which we may have been guessing at but don't know for sure). They obviously believe this will reduce (hopefully mostly solve) the problems that they have seen. They know who the people are that have been abusing the current system and obviously believe this will curtail the activities of those individuals - otherwise they wouldn't be introducing these limits. We'll see how well this works at the next loan launch
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 3, 2016 23:45:26 GMT
The post is about INPL, it doesnt specify SM in the title, and that affects both PM & SM so both are covered cooling_dude we need a poll, which interpretation is correct 
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 3, 2016 23:49:22 GMT
You are not limited on how much you can prefund but by the deficit that can create, a max 10k. So if you prefunded 50k and were allocated 20k, you would need to have 10k already available. What SS appear to be doing is pushing people to pay for part of their PF allocations in advance if they are likely to be greater than 10k. Given that the timescales for working hour deposits and withdrawals are now hours rather than a day this is now realistic. Now if SS could just add the 'at least' we could all let out a collective 'ah ha now it makes sense' I find it amusing how many different interpretations people can make of the OP. Is it any wonder that there's a huge demand for lawyers to sort out disputes caused by different interpretations of contract terms? IMHO the problem is caused by SS having left out "at least" from their "EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL" and really meant to say "EVERYONE has at least a £10,000 INPL". That would make everyone's INPL for the SM the same as their INPL for the PM. (I'm ignoring the special case of multiple loans going live on the same day.) So just as you can pre-fund up to the amount of parts you have plus your cash balance, you can buy on the SM up to the amount of parts you have plus your cash balance. IMHO, the whole point of the SM INPL is to stop someone hoovering up absolutely everything that's offered for sale and running up a negative balance many times greater than their existing account size. The existing pre-funding limit means you can't more than double your account size via the PM. (Again I'm ignoring the special case of multiple loans going live on the same day.) And the new INPL limit -- as I've interpreted it -- means exactly the same thing, i.e. you can't more than double your account size, via the SM either. Am I the only one who thinks this might be what savingstream meant? PS. It will be interesting to see what the correct answer is when SS clarifies the situation. 
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caesium
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Post by caesium on Mar 4, 2016 0:26:52 GMT
I long for the day that savingstream can post an unambiguous update that doesn't result in 3 pages of debate trying to understand what they meant.. |
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 4, 2016 0:46:12 GMT
If you think this was bad, tŕy the CR on the latest AC loan, written in Bankerese & jargonaliferistic |
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Mar 4, 2016 0:53:14 GMT
I long for the day that savingstream can post an unambiguous update that doesn't result in 3 pages of debate trying to understand what they meant.. That would be good (they can be a bit prone to typo's and errors at times), and even better if they responded a bit faster. But at least we can have the discussion and flag things up here, and EVERYONE has the right to comment or air their views  . I think the 'at least' or 'as' brigade might be on the mark, the literal alternative seems to throw up rather bizarre consequences for B/MH's or newbies that I'm not entirely convinced are intentional.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Mar 4, 2016 8:48:19 GMT
Whilst I sympathise with JimsGirl's POV I can't resist asking those who think "at least" has been omitted what is the extra over and above £10K?
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Mar 4, 2016 8:56:25 GMT
I am reading it as:
EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit as per pre-fund loans including new investors.
... the post is clearly about SM purchases, the context must determine the meaning.
Adding the word "as" completely changes the meaning. As written the OP is clearly referring to pre-funding, ie the PM, and I am taking that on face value. It seems perverse to assume otherwise. Some people think they have omitted "at least" but I prefer to assume that they wrote what they meant. Exactly how the £10k cap on INPL will be applied is unclear but otherwise I have no problem with the OP.
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geoff
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Post by geoff on Mar 4, 2016 9:01:56 GMT
It seems to me that it's pointless us going around in circles speculating, on what may or may not have been a miswritten post by savingstream ; it has the potential to spiral into unnecessary quarrels (we all know of one troll who would love to escalate the situation) -------------- Could we draw a line under this thread until such a time savingstream edits their original post or comment directly on the subject........ What's your problem? The point of this forum is to discuss, debate, and yes, speculate on these issues, and from those discussions may come a greater understanding. There may be disagreement, even argument (heaven forbid!), but nothing wrong with that. I may be in the minority here, but I'm sorry that sunspot has been permanently banned. I believe he brought some interesting alternative ideas and viewpoints to the table. It seems to me that some forum members were not able to deal with this, and something of a playground mentality took hold. Very unedifying. Anyway back on topic, I'm with mikes1531 meledor and star dust on this, that is, the existing PM rules now applying to the SM. The OP, I agree was somewhat ambiguous but I'm sure official clarification will be forthcoming.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2016 9:03:24 GMT
Dear All, Everyone now has a default limit to what they can buy on the secondary market unless they specifically request a higher one. Namely, it is a combination of cash on account plus your existing holdings i.e : £200,000 cash, no loan parts yet, you can buy £200,000 worth of loan parts. £200,000 loan parts, no cash, you can buy £200,000 worth of loan parts. £200,000 cash, £200,000 loan parts, you can buy £400,000 worth of loan parts. EVERYONE has a £10,000 INPL (we like that acronym) limit per pre-fund loan including new investors. Misuse of our generous system will result in restrictions and limitations. The last 3 pages seem to suggest these rules need explaining further, was just blocked when I tried to buy more than £10k on the secondary market. (Loan parts held are more than £10k).
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