oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jun 26, 2016 9:41:28 GMT
Nice idea in principle, but difficult to implement in practice. As an example there was a statement from the leave campaign that we were subject to ***** (enter your own number) laws from Europe. When they asked an expert he said that it all depended on what you call a law. Ultimately if people are lying there are existing laws to deal with it. ... so you'll get a different answer again depending on what you call an expert. Mmmm!  PS ...and all politicians (it seems to me) cast around until they find an "expert" to tell them what they want to hear, then everyone else is wrong.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jun 26, 2016 9:44:32 GMT
The EU will be blamed for everything for the next 5 years. For not giving us a sweetheart deal. Although why they should is beyond me.
My opening position if I was the eu... 'Sure you can have access to the single market, just allowed free movement of people, pay a financial contribution matching your previous membership fees but with no rebate, but have no cash going back for CAP, regional development etc'.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 26, 2016 10:33:40 GMT
Can you imagine the German finance minister going to the boss of BMW and telling him he has to add 25% export tax on all the cars he sells to UK. Since there would be no trade deal, the UK would also be charging that 10% duty on imports that were previously zero-rated in the single market. And this is why there would be great pressure to come to a deal. Slapping duties on trade in both directions isn't going to benefit anyone.
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Jaydee
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Post by Jaydee on Jun 26, 2016 10:47:09 GMT
Since there would be no trade deal, the UK would also be charging that 10% duty on imports that were previously zero-rated in the single market. And this is why there would be great pressure to come to a deal. Slapping duties on trade in both directions isn't going to benefit anyone. Irrespective of how you voted, we really need a very strong leader / negotiator to get the best deal for the UK. Ignore the ravings of the SNP. Scotland is broke and in a worse financial position now than at the last Indy referendum. We need to concentrate on the main job in hand getting the best (fair) deal for the UK. As said previously, we import more from the EU than we export. Much of what we import can be obtained from other countries. The german car makers, french farmers, wine producers, cheese makers, wind turbine manufacturers etc will not want to see their share of the UK market going elsewhere or be affected by UK imposed tariffs. Their governments will be under great pressure to ensure that their producers are protected. Similarly the holiday / travel trade in the EU will not want to see the British market diminish, especially Spain, which appears to be in the ascendancy following the recent events in Turkey, Egypt and Tunisia. Spain, Portugal and Greece all have very high levels of unemployment especially in the younger age group and tourism is an essential part of their economy. We must play to our strengths during the negotiations. Cameron was not a strong negotiator.
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 26, 2016 10:53:06 GMT
Yup. Just look at who's happy... Putin. ISIS. The European far-right. Trump. A weak Europe is not good at all for the stability of the world. And look who is unhappy because they were strong supporters of Remain. Goldman Sachs. JP Morgan. Soros. Lots of CEOs of multinationals. The SNP. The Lib Dems. Most of the Labour party. Merkel. Holland. Obama. Reminds me of this link 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 26, 2016 11:26:13 GMT
Since there would be no trade deal, the UK would also be charging that 10% duty on imports that were previously zero-rated in the single market. And this is why there would be great pressure to come to a deal. Slapping duties on trade in both directions isn't going to benefit anyone. Then a trade deal needs to be negotiated as part of the Article 50 exit. And the EU have long been absolutely adamant (before we even joined the EC) that the four basic Treaty of Rome freedoms are indivisible. Practically, the free trade deal would be EEA membership for the UK.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 26, 2016 11:53:55 GMT
And this is why there would be great pressure to come to a deal. Slapping duties on trade in both directions isn't going to benefit anyone. And the EU have long been absolutely adamant ...... And prior to the 2010 election the Lib Dems were absolutely adamant that they would oppose increases in student tuition fees. As we all know when the talking started they reluctantly agreed. It's easy to take a hardline approach before negotiations start, but when the talking starts I suspect that both side will have to soften their position.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 26, 2016 11:58:33 GMT
And the EU have long been absolutely adamant ...... And prior to the 2010 election the Lib Dems were absolutely adamant that they would oppose increases in student tuition fees. As we all know when the talking started they reluctantly agreed. It's easy to take a hardline approach before negotiations start, but when the talking starts I suspect that both side will have to soften their position. It's impossible to take a hardline approach when you're a minority in a coalition, as the LDs found out, outnumbered more than 5:1...
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 26, 2016 13:15:21 GMT
The 2nd referendum is here link |
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jun 27, 2016 7:44:57 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 27, 2016 9:29:16 GMT
Interesting watching Gove and Johnson examining the poisoned chalice of the Conservative leadership.
The 'Leave' campaign won by promising a lot of contradictory things - immigration controls but access to the single market, free enterprise but tougher border controls, extra money for the NHS but smaller government etc. The Conservative leavers adopted UKIP's agenda, but now have to tell the pro-UKIP voters (who swung it) that they're not going to get lower immigration, better public services or higher wages. Given the likely economic impact, they'll be lucky to have any jobs or healthcare at all.
UK looks a bit like a failed state at present. No government, no opposition, regional parliament threatening to block the national parliament, dynamic regions (which all voted to Remain) soon to be shut out of main markets, and (if anyone does regain power) more laws and treaties to re-write than we have administrative capacity for.
It is time for a new single issue party to arise, representing the young, the bright and the modern as Ukip represents the ******** and the ******. The single issue is rejoining the 21st century.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 27, 2016 9:55:17 GMT
Interesting watching Gove and Johnson examining the poisoned chalice of the Conservative leadership. The 'Leave' campaign won by promising a lot of contradictory things - immigration controls but access to the single market, free enterprise but tougher border controls, extra money for the NHS but smaller government etc. The Conservative leavers adopted UKIP's agenda, but now have to tell the pro-UKIP voters (who swung it) that they're not going to get lower immigration, better public services or higher wages. Given the likely economic impact, they'll be lucky to have any jobs or healthcare at all. UK looks a bit like a failed state at present. No government, no opposition, regional parliament threatening to block the national parliament, dynamic regions (which all voted to Remain) soon to be shut out of main markets, and (if anyone does regain power) more laws and treaties to re-write than we have administrative capacity for. It is time for a new single issue party to arise, representing the young, the bright and the modern as Ukip represents the ******** and the *******. The single issue is rejoining the 21st century. The fact that nonsense like this is getting Likes is shameful. The UK a failed state? Hyperbole much. All UKIP supporters are ******** and the ****** ? No sense of irony I see. I think I'll stick to the P2P section of the website from now on. Too many sore losers and too much vitriol in here to make rational conversation possible.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 27, 2016 10:00:10 GMT
Before I go, I'll make one observation. The poll results of the thread speak quite clearly but seem to contradict the content of the thread. It seems that one group is very vocal whilst the other don't bother to write so much. I wonder if posts like captainconfident's are a factor when they paint people with opposing views in such a derogatory manner. |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 27, 2016 10:04:21 GMT
I wonder if posts like captainconfident 's are a factor when they paint people with opposing views in such a derogatory manner. Oh, the irony is strong...
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 27, 2016 10:08:18 GMT
Interesting watching Gove and Johnson examining the poisoned chalice of the Conservative leadership. The 'Leave' campaign won by promising a lot of contradictory things - immigration controls but access to the single market, free enterprise but tougher border controls, extra money for the NHS but smaller government etc. The Conservative leavers adopted UKIP's agenda, but now have to tell the pro-UKIP voters (who swung it) that they're not going to get lower immigration, better public services or higher wages. Given the likely economic impact, they'll be lucky to have any jobs or healthcare at all. UK looks a bit like a failed state at present. No government, no opposition, regional parliament threatening to block the national parliament, dynamic regions (which all voted to Remain) soon to be shut out of main markets, and (if anyone does regain power) more laws and treaties to re-write than we have administrative capacity for. It is time for a new single issue party to arise, representing the young, the bright and the modern as Ukip represents the ******** and the ******. The single issue is rejoining the 21st century. The fact that nonsense like this is getting Likes is shameful. The UK a failed state? Hyperbole much. All UKIP supporters are ******** and the ******? No sense of irony I see. I think I'll stick to the P2P section of the website from now on. Too many sore losers and too much vitriol in here to make rational conversation possible. I agree that to call the UK a failed state is hyperbole, and not all UKIP supporters (or leave voters who aren't UKIP supporters) are ******** and the ******. That having been said I, personally, agree with the rest of captainconfident's post.
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