jo
Member of DD Central
dead
Posts: 741
Likes: 498
|
Post by jo on Jun 9, 2017 6:52:24 GMT
'Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.'
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jun 9, 2017 11:39:55 GMT
uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/brexit-five-possible-scenarios-uk-100411294.htmlThis is an extract from the above article: 2. A softer Brexit Many will look at Theresa May’s drubbing on Thursday and demand more change over Brexit. There was an 8% swing from Conservatives to Labour in constituencies that voted to remain in last year’s referendum, suggesting her uncompromising stance played a big part in the government’s downfall. But Labour also limited the scale of its losses to the Tories in leave-voting constituencies to just 1% by playing a clever game of fudging its Brexit position. The Liberal Democrats’ loss of seats such as Sheffield Hallam also suggests there is little support in the north for backtracking entirely over Brexit. If Labour hopes to shift the country’s negotiating stance it needs to tread very carefully, especially if another general election lurks around the corner. One option might be to try to find a way to remain in the single market, with tweaks to EU freedom of movement rules rather than wholesale new immigration controls. This was attempted by David Cameron before the referendum, but British negotiators would be in a much stronger position now to try again. Some interesting points: “There was an 8% swing from Conservatives to Labour in constituencies that voted to remain in last year’s referendum, suggesting her uncompromising stance played a big part in the government’s downfall.” I find the scenario of Tory Leavers voting Labour in revenge for the Brexit vote to be the equivalent of turkeys voting for Christmas when many would probably suffer financially under a Labour government. In the centenary year of the Bolsheviks seizing power in Russia, the expression “Useful Idiots” usually attributed to Lenin is an apt description of these people if they have indeed voted that way. “But Labour also limited the scale of its losses to the Tories in leave-voting constituencies to just 1% by playing a clever game of fudging its Brexit position.” That speaks for itself, the Conservatives failed to hold Labour to account on the specifics of just about everything, not just Brexit. “The Liberal Democrats’ loss of seats such as Sheffield Hallam also suggests there is little support in the north for backtracking entirely over Brexit.” Not entirely sure about Sheffield Hallam, I would suggest that was the student vote but there is definitely little appetite for backtracking completely on Brexit up here. “One option might be to try to find a way to remain in the single market, with tweaks to EU freedom of movement rules rather than wholesale new immigration controls.” I can hardly see Corbyn and indeed most of the Labour party agreeing to that. All in all, a complete shambles largely created by an inept Tory campaign, they need to get their fingers out and quickly get their act together on policy and presentation, not just Brexit, as despite all the hype, Corbyn has not triumphed: www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/06/iain-dale-no-corbyn-hasnt-pulled-off-a-triumph-a-defeat-is-a-defeat-is-a-defeat.htmlFailure to extract digits will result in the nightmare scenario of a Marxist government full of Labour moderates who will be happy just to remain MP’s. As the second post on this thread says, “more uncertainty”
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 6,437
|
Post by registerme on Jun 9, 2017 11:45:25 GMT
Omnishambles was word of the year.
In 2012.
|
|
|
Post by gmaxkenny on Jun 9, 2017 15:09:14 GMT
So it will be the Tories + DUP. Boy are you guys in for a fun time. Despite stiff opposition Arlene Foster is without doubt the worst party leader in these islands. Financially illiterate,(cash for ash scheme) mired in corruption scandals,somewhere to the right of the Aylatollahs on social issues and a bigot to boot. After a few months of her and her band of nutters (creationists,climate change deniers and paramilitary supporters) parading themselves on national TV Corbyn will be a shoe in for PM when the next election comes around. Enjoy!
|
|
|
Post by martin44 on Jun 9, 2017 16:31:00 GMT
So it will be the Tories + DUP. Boy are you guys in for a fun time. Despite stiff opposition Arlene Foster is without doubt the worst party leader in these islands. Financially illiterate,(cash for ash scheme) mired in corruption scandals,somewhere to the right of the Aylatollahs on social issues and a bigot to boot. After a few months of her and her band of nutters (creationists, climate change deniers and paramilitary supporters) parading themselves on national TV Corbyn will be a shoe in for PM when the next election comes around. Enjoy! She's a climate change denier?... I like her already.
|
|
stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 945
|
Post by stub8535 on Jun 9, 2017 16:56:12 GMT
So it will be the Tories + DUP. Boy are you guys in for a fun time. Despite stiff opposition Arlene Foster is without doubt the worst party leader in these islands. Financially illiterate,(cash for ash scheme) mired in corruption scandals,somewhere to the right of the Aylatollahs on social issues and a bigot to boot. After a few months of her and her band of nutters (creationists,climate change deniers and paramilitary supporters) parading themselves on national TV Corbyn will be a shoe in for PM when the next election comes around. Enjoy! Seems her constituents disagree with your assessment as she increased her majority considerably. Wonder if she was one of the counters?
|
|
stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 945
|
Post by stub8535 on Jun 9, 2017 16:58:43 GMT
So it will be the Tories + DUP. Boy are you guys in for a fun time. Despite stiff opposition Arlene Foster is without doubt the worst party leader in these islands. Financially illiterate,(cash for ash scheme) mired in corruption scandals,somewhere to the right of the Aylatollahs on social issues and a bigot to boot. After a few months of her and her band of nutters (creationists,climate change deniers and paramilitary supporters) parading themselves on national TV Corbyn will be a shoe in for PM when the next election comes around. Enjoy! Seems her constituents disagree with your assessment as she increased her majority considerably. Wonder if she was one of the counters? Oops. Need to read post before commenting. Meant to talk about that wonderful bean counter troted out by the tories to redicule labour Dianne Abbott or was I dreaming? ?
|
|
|
Post by gmaxkenny on Jun 9, 2017 17:33:01 GMT
Seems her constituents disagree with your assessment as she increased her majority considerably. Wonder if she was one of the counters? Oops. Need to read post before commenting. Meant to talk about that wonderful bean counter troted out by the tories to redicule labour Dianne Abbott or was I dreaming? ? Of course they agree,dont forget the DUP is the party of the late Ian Paisley,basically Scottish Presbyterians who share their DNA with the Christian right of the USA Republican Party with whom they have a lot in common. Not the kind of people most in the Uk would like doing business with.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,015
Likes: 5,144
|
Post by adrianc on Jun 9, 2017 22:24:50 GMT
|
|
|
Post by martin44 on Jun 10, 2017 14:24:53 GMT
adrianc You read the Guardian too much.
|
|
phil
Posts: 190
Likes: 165
|
Post by phil on Jun 10, 2017 14:31:35 GMT
I'm puzzled, you have previously alluded in this thread that it was undemocratic to act on the wishes of 37.5% of the electorate to go ahead with Brexit (colloquially known as remoaning ), so it's rather puzzling that you think it is democratic to act on the wishes of 37.5% or less of the electorate to return an MP. Moreover, 51.89% of voters favoured Brexit, a clear majority, but in some UK constituencies MPs are returned with as little as 25% support of voters, a clear minority. There's a rather massive difference between a simple national yes/no as to whether the entire direction of the country should be changed, upending the last four and a half decades of legislation completely, and who the representative for your area's going to be for the next five years. Given that you think the above, what have you to say about the "yes" vote in 1975 by a minority of the UK electorate that led to the entire direction of the country being changed, upending hundreds of years of our sovereignty and resulting in the handing over of our sovereignty to a group of countries that don't have the UK national interest as it's number one priority?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,015
Likes: 5,144
|
Post by adrianc on Jun 10, 2017 16:16:18 GMT
There's a rather massive difference between a simple national yes/no as to whether the entire direction of the country should be changed, upending the last four and a half decades of legislation completely, and who the representative for your area's going to be for the next five years. Given that you think the above, what have you to say about the "yes" vote in 1975 by a minority of the UK electorate that led to the entire direction of the country being changed, upending hundreds of years of our sovereignty and resulting in the handing over of our sovereignty to a group of countries that don't have the UK national interest as it's number one priority? 1975 - 67.2% yes vote, 64.6% turnout. 43.4% of electorate. 2016 - 51.9% leave vote, 72.2% turnout. 37.5% of electorate. My point, however, was that an individual MP is elected for five years at most. That MP is one of 650 people who vote on legislation. Each individual MP has virtually zero impact. B'sides, very few seats are ever a simply binary choice.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,015
Likes: 5,144
|
Post by adrianc on Jun 10, 2017 16:50:32 GMT
adrianc You read the Guardian too much. I don't read it at all, thanks.
|
|
skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
Posts: 787
Likes: 424
|
Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 10, 2017 17:45:01 GMT
There's a rather massive difference between a simple national yes/no as to whether the entire direction of the country should be changed, upending the last four and a half decades of legislation completely, and who the representative for your area's going to be for the next five years. Given that you think the above, what have you to say about the "yes" vote in 1975 by a minority of the UK electorate that led to the entire direction of the country being changed, upending hundreds of years of our sovereignty and resulting in the handing over of our sovereignty to a group of countries that don't have the UK national interest as it's number one priority? That was a big con. The voting that took place in the '70s was the thin end of the wedge and we were told that it was purely to ease trading with Europe, and we would still make our own laws Do you think that the public at the time would have agreed to allow Europe to have so much power over us, bearing in mind a lot of the population had fought in WW2 to keep our sovereignity. I for one was overjoyed with Brexit vote.
|
|
phil
Posts: 190
Likes: 165
|
Post by phil on Jun 10, 2017 23:56:21 GMT
Given that you think the above, what have you to say about the "yes" vote in 1975 by a minority of the UK electorate that led to the entire direction of the country being changed, upending hundreds of years of our sovereignty and resulting in the handing over of our sovereignty to a group of countries that don't have the UK national interest as it's number one priority? 1975 - 67.2% yes vote, 64.6% turnout. 43.4% of electorate. 2016 - 51.9% leave vote, 72.2% turnout. 37.5% of electorate. My point, however, was that an individual MP is elected for five years at most. That MP is one of 650 people who vote on legislation. Each individual MP has virtually zero impact. B'sides, very few seats are ever a simply binary choice. I see you evaded the question What have you to say about the "yes" vote in 1975 by a minority of the UK electorate that led to the entire direction of the country being changed, upending hundreds of years of our sovereignty and resulting in the handing over of our sovereignty to a group of countries that don't have the UK national interest as it's number one priority? Your point was that it's OK for an MP to be elected on less than 50% of the vote then at the same time you "remoan" that it's not right to Brexit on more than 50% of the vote
|
|