travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 28, 2024 21:58:33 GMT
Y'know none of this is new.Its aformatt repeating itself across the decades. Is it because 'they' want to ramp up support for the US Nukes in the UK and reporting such is a softening up process to make it all the more palatable to the locals around Lakenheath etc.
(Maybe it all feels new to millenials)
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 28, 2024 22:54:31 GMT
If we take military action off the table, has anybody got any actual suggestions as to what to do about the Houthis shooting at / hijacking international shipping? That sounds like you agree with the UK lobbing a few missiles into Yemen? So far that's ended up with a UK connected tanker getting hit. And now the US president is talking about "Iran backed militia" in Syria etc responsible for knocking out 3 troops. Interesting choice of words there which I never heard before in the Syrian and Iraq wars. The war mongerer "Mr nice guy" Biden is clearly paving the way for an invasion of Iran - at least keeping his options open. I asked a question. You failed to answer it.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 28, 2024 23:17:22 GMT
That sounds like you agree with the UK lobbing a few missiles into Yemen? So far that's ended up with a UK connected tanker getting hit. And now the US president is talking about "Iran backed militia" in Syria etc responsible for knocking out 3 troops. Interesting choice of words there which I never heard before in the Syrian and Iraq wars. The war mongerer "Mr nice guy" Biden is clearly paving the way for an invasion of Iran - at least keeping his options open. I asked a question. You failed to answer it. Come come now. I answered your question in my own way - a genuine response. Your answer however is simply commentary on the nature of the exchange. A meta-answer if you will. Let me ask again. Should Britain be the only country other than the US that is lobbing missiles into Yemen?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 29, 2024 8:16:15 GMT
I asked a question. You failed to answer it. Come come now. I answered your question in my own way - a genuine response. Your answer however is simply commentary on the nature of the exchange. A meta-answer if you will. Let me ask again. Should Britain be the only country other than the US that is lobbing missiles into Yemen? I would rather see no need to "lob missiles into Yemen", but, sadly, I do see such a need - I would rather see a wider coalition taking punitive action against the Houthis. Now, if you take military action off the table, what other ways of preventing the Houthis from lobbing missiles at any ship that happens past in the Red Sea? Saying "bring peace to the Middle East" isn't a helpful answer.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 29, 2024 9:10:48 GMT
I asked a question. You failed to answer it. Come come now. I answered your question in my own way - a genuine response. Your answer however is simply commentary on the nature of the exchange. A meta-answer if you will. Let me ask again. Should Britain be the only country other than the US that is lobbing missiles into Yemen?that is all very well as an observation. But asking that question as a Yes/No is avoidance, because everyone* would prefer and can sign up to a wish that shouldn't be the case. The reason t's a cop out is it simply repeats what all would want, while avoiding the difficult questions of "Who?" and "But what if?". If one is of the view that no-one should be, including the US, then that is a valid and thoroughly debatable point. If one is saying it mustn't be then it is also incumbent on one to say who else should/must be be on board. The only answer I saw previously included two countries each with a population less than 1/10th that of the UK, who simply do not have anywhere near the same level of force projection capabilities that the UK has (and even that is now getting pretty ropey). That is not an expectation or wish that is rooted in military reality. The list of the 'able' is a pretty short one. It would include France. They have decided to not be involved. So yes not all those that are able have got involved. Hence the next question is: given that, should the UK have also refused to get involved ? If one's answer to that is yes, then essentially that reduces the position to: 1. Nothing should be done, and the attacks on both merchant ships and our own naval vessels should go unanswered or 2. there should be a response, but we should rely on and leave it solely to the US to shoulder. if that question isn't answered, then "we shouldn't be the only ones" is a hollow statement: we can all agree with it, but it says nothing about what position to take in the event that. *who thinks that some action is reasonable
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 9:29:21 GMT
Should Britain be the only country other than the US that is lobbing missiles into Yemen? The UK and US are the only countries "lobbing missiles", but they are not the only countries involved in lobbing those missiles. There is a coalition of other countries working together with the US and UK to lob those missiles. The question is more one of "Should those missiles be lobbed, given that the current threats exist for commercial shipping around that part of the world?"
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 29, 2024 11:11:51 GMT
Should Britain be the only country other than the US that is lobbing missiles into Yemen? The UK and US are the only countries "lobbing missiles", but they are not the only countries involved in lobbing those missiles. There is a coalition of other countries working together with the US and UK to lob those missiles. The question is more one of "Should those missiles be lobbed, given that the current threats exist for commercial shipping around that part of the world?"Maybe we should paint French/Italian/German etc flags onto the missiles we "lob" there has to be a diplomatic / economic answer ie you lob missiles at boats no-one trades with you till you stop, and I include aid payments / deliveries in trade
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 11:36:42 GMT
there has to be a diplomatic / economic answer ie you lob missiles at boats no-one trades with you till you stop, and I include aid payments / deliveries in trade Is there much trade with the Houthis...? There is UK aid to Yemen - only £88m this year - but the Houthis are rebelling against the internationally-recognised Yemeni government. researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9326/CBP-9326.pdfThe Houthis are backed by Iran - but are politically and operationally independent from Iran. Don't forget, Iran is already under sanction.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 29, 2024 11:51:07 GMT
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 29, 2024 12:06:13 GMT
Yemens main cash crop is QAT ( or KHAT ) which uses huge amounts of water and water is very scarce, one issue being that the country is rapidly draining its aquifers, wells are now having to be drilled to 1000 metres or more
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 29, 2024 12:13:38 GMT
there has to be a diplomatic / economic answer ie you lob missiles at boats no-one trades with you till you stop, and I include aid payments / deliveries in trade Is there much trade with the Houthis...? There is UK aid to Yemen - only £88m this year - but the Houthis are rebelling against the internationally-recognised Yemeni government. researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9326/CBP-9326.pdfThe Houthis are backed by Iran - but are politically and operationally independent from Iran. Don't forget, Iran is already under sanction. you could have argued the same in South Africa and elsewhere that sanctions tend to hurt the poor and disadvantaged Honestly I believe that the Houthis wouldn't be using drones etc to attack shipping without explicit instructions from the paymasters in Iran, indeed I would go so far as to suggest that IMHO it is likely they are supplied by Iran
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 12:21:38 GMT
Is there much trade with the Houthis...? There is UK aid to Yemen - only £88m this year - but the Houthis are rebelling against the internationally-recognised Yemeni government. researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9326/CBP-9326.pdfThe Houthis are backed by Iran - but are politically and operationally independent from Iran. Don't forget, Iran is already under sanction. you could have argued the same in South Africa and elsewhere that sanctions tend to hurt the poor and disadvantaged Honestly I believe that the Houthis wouldn't be using drones etc to attack shipping without explicit instructions from the paymasters in Iran, indeed I would go so far as to suggest that IMHO it is likely they are supplied by Iran So you're suggesting we should stop providing aid to Iran, and stop trading with Iran...?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 29, 2024 12:22:55 GMT
Yemens main cash crop is QAT ( or KHAT ) which uses huge amounts of water and water is very scarce, one issue being that the country is rapidly draining its aquifers, wells are now having to be drilled to 1000 metres or more A couple of things we should bear in mind: 1) It is not Yemen - as in the recognised state - that is launching the attacks. And indeed the formally recognised govt. has condemned them. 2) It is the Houthis, who - in terms of international recognition - are not the actual government. 3) While they are an anti-Yemeni govt. movement, they are also an anti-US, Israel (and Saudi Arabia) movement. I'm not sure they are as much into 'economic planning' as they are into creating chaos amongst the heretics. 4) Yemen is a failed state (see 1,2 and 3). As such actions calibrated to impact at a country level are not likely to be appropriate/effective 5) Yemen is a bit of a humanitarian disaster (see 1,2,3 and 4). This is one of the reasons that Biden had removed the 'terrorist movement' label that the Trump administration had placed on the Houthis: better to enable both aid and dialogue. Of course recent actions have prompted a reversal of that decision. OK, that's 5 things. EDIT: I had originally read keitha's post as perhaps suggesting that restricting water supply to the country was potentially being suggested. This was in the context of prior post talking about 'economic action'. It is possible that wasn't being suggested, and was more about commentary on reasons for their being a famine (water use for cash crop). Nonetheless my comments I think are valid in their own right.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 29, 2024 13:27:08 GMT
Is there much trade with the Houthis...? There is UK aid to Yemen - only £88m this year - but the Houthis are rebelling against the internationally-recognised Yemeni government. researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9326/CBP-9326.pdfThe Houthis are backed by Iran - but are politically and operationally independent from Iran. Don't forget, Iran is already under sanction. you could have argued the same in South Africa and elsewhere that sanctions tend to hurt the poor and disadvantaged Honestly I believe that the Houthis wouldn't be using drones etc to attack shipping without explicit instructions from the paymasters in Iran, indeed I would go so far as to suggest that IMHO it is likely they are supplied by IranMostly agree with that. I would switch the emphasis around though: I would suggest that it is absolutely certain that they are being supplied by Iran, but not all of their actions are a result of explicit instruction. There was an Iranian spy/intelligence ship that chose to 'depart from the area' very shortly being the initial US attack: it is generally accepted that was almost definitely passing intel to the Houthis. Iran has its hands all over this. Using proxies - even if only partially under their control - is their modus operandi.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 29, 2024 13:47:26 GMT
you could have argued the same in South Africa and elsewhere that sanctions tend to hurt the poor and disadvantaged Honestly I believe that the Houthis wouldn't be using drones etc to attack shipping without explicit instructions from the paymasters in Iran, indeed I would go so far as to suggest that IMHO it is likely they are supplied by Iran So you're suggesting we should stop providing aid to Iran, and stop trading with Iran...? personally we should have levelled the country years ago
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