keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 21, 2021 21:52:08 GMT
To me it's a bit catch 22
If we go renewable too soon we risk becoming an uncompetitive economy, but if we don't we lose the moral high ground.
being sensible the Pandemic has given us an opportunity to reset.
We have businesses that won't reopen as they aren't economic unless they can cram people in, etc.
So we will have empty shops etc, and people out of work.
so we retrain people to fit insulation etc. we rewire shops so that they don't have bright lights on all night. we devise a scheme to insulate older properties and those with solid walls.we supply and fit this free. This then reduces the carbon footprint of those properties, It would also make heat pumps viable in those properties. we financially reward people for being green and penalties for being non green, Lower council tax for recycling etc, so lets say 12.5% off for solar panels, 10% added for single glazing. 10% off for regular recycling. ( just on my street within 4 houses each side, 2 put everything in the black bags ).
standing charges on Utilities limited to 10% of the bill, at the moment for example If I use 1KW of electricity it effectively costs 35P a Unit, use 20 units and its effectively 15P a unit
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jun 22, 2021 8:13:39 GMT
I'm always a bit surprised when I find that someone is anti-wind turbines. I find them quite graceful and far more ascetically pleasing than most of the alternatives.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 22, 2021 8:32:26 GMT
Yep to all
I was really more interested in how many of our readers know their own energy usage.
I agree we are still using a lot of gas but that is going to fall away drastically in the years ahead as the dash-from-gas accelerates
I know ours roughly, because I have the figures in MSEs Cheap Energy Club so I can get alerted when/if my tariff is becoming uncompetitive. But to get the current figures I can lift from my energy supplier's website. According to them our usage is: E: 4487 Kwh p/a G: 15943 KWh p/a apparently we are a long way below the national average for our house type. but that is because we have a 5 bed house with only 2 of us living in it, and certain rooms rarely have heating on. Edit: In theory their average calcs are meant to take into account the number of people in the house, but who knows whether that is true. Hot water and heating is gas (as you can no doubt guess). We don't have any onsite generation.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 22, 2021 9:47:43 GMT
If we go renewable too soon we risk becoming an uncompetitive economy Do you not think renewables are mature technology yet?
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Jun 22, 2021 10:34:14 GMT
If we go renewable too soon we risk becoming an uncompetitive economy, The Levelised Cost Of Electricity for new wind/solar is actually less than gas now so we're actually becoming more competitive as we switch.
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bernythedolt
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Post by bernythedolt on Jun 22, 2021 10:37:47 GMT
The locals are like frogs in slowly warming water which will eventually boil. Get with the program and do your share. [...] The average household income here after tax is less than £2000 a month, Council tax is £120, Gas and electric £120, rent £500 people might be able to scrape together £2000 to buy a second hand car, but they can't afford electric vehicles, nor can they afford £15000 for a heat pump. We don't have off road parking to charge our EV So a disposable income of ~£800 per month then, after allowing for food? That doesn't sound too desperate (I'm sure we managed on far less when paying our 13 - 16% mortgage interest in the late 1970s/early 1980s). You can afford what you choose to afford. I remember being shocked to discover the monthly HP payments on my first brand new car in 1985 cost exactly the same as a relative was wasting on his cigarette addiction. I will wager there's no shortage of locals wielding an iPhone in one hand and a fag in the other, telling everyone how deprived they are.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2021 10:52:03 GMT
If we go renewable too soon we risk becoming an uncompetitive economy Do you not think renewables are mature technology yet? I remember when we were competitive in making toasters, but that was 50 years ago. On the otherhand our developments at riversimple or ITM are cutting edge.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 22, 2021 11:01:40 GMT
On the otherhand our developments at riversimple or ITM are cutting edge. Don't start me on Riversimple... They've built four cars, best I can tell (blue DX65, red DX68, green H2CXA, grey H2CXD). It's six years since the first one was registered. I had a good poke around the original blue one at an event a few years ago. Ignore the powertrain, and it was simply awful. It was a shonky kit-car, and not even a very good one. It's already off the road - and look at the MOT history for it... I'm totally unconvinced hydrogen fuel cells are the way forward. I really like the concept of a light minimal car (and batteries kill that dead) but Riversimple are not building one with a realistic hope in hell.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 22, 2021 11:09:56 GMT
If we go renewable too soon we risk becoming an uncompetitive economy, The Levelised Cost Of Electricity for new wind/solar is actually less than gas now so we're actually becoming more competitive as we switch. yes, I've heard that said several times recently. However, I'm not sure I know exactly what that means. Does it take into account the financial incentives & disincentives that exist to encourage green / discourage carbon or not ? If it does then the original point about implications for competitiveness is still a valid one (regardless of whether one agrees with the point).
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Jun 22, 2021 11:36:49 GMT
The Levelised Cost Of Electricity for new wind/solar is actually less than gas now so we're actually becoming more competitive as we switch. yes, I've heard that said several times recently. However, I'm not sure I know exactly what that means. Does it take into account the financial incentives & disincentives that exist to encourage green / discourage carbon or not ? If it does then the original point about implications for competitiveness is still a valid one (regardless of whether one agrees with the point). It's doesn't take into account subsidies/carbon taxes, although I am sure figures are produced that do take these into account. It does take into account capital costs and the time value of the revenue stream/running costs.
Details of the formula are on:
2015 figures for the UK are here:
(Solar and wind have continued to fall since then)
The hiccup is this is for *new* generation. An existing gas plant where the capital was spent years ago produces energy cheaper than a new wind turbine so it becomes a case of not replacing old gas plants and adding wind to meet our needs as they come to the end of their lifespan. Renewables are continuing to fall though and it is now cheaper to produce new renewable capacity cheaper than running existing coal plants. As such closing coal plants and producing renewables is economically beneficial which will be a driving factor in economies like China and the US where enviromental factors seem like less of a concern.
If we add in a carbon tax that is applied globabally it could eventually tip us away from gas too.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jun 22, 2021 12:24:00 GMT
Window dressing and as unenforceable as nil overside quotes the 1/2 mariner. Call me again when you can prove it .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2021 12:30:35 GMT
It will be interesting as maritime converts, I'd only trust the Danes to actually do it but the great news is that satallites can actually track the types of waste gases all large ships generate.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 23, 2021 8:56:01 GMT
You can afford what you choose to afford. I remember being shocked to discover the monthly HP payments on my first brand new car in 1985 cost exactly the same as a relative was wasting on his cigarette addiction. I will wager there's no shortage of locals wielding an iPhone in one hand and a fag in the other, telling everyone how deprived they are. Berny, being totally honest, and blunt yes these are the same people that I have seen using a local food bank ( I was dropping a donation off ) But yes "tailor made" cigarettes as opposed to "rollups", nice new phone, designer clothes, hair just so and often coloured ( and it was all through lockdowns )
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 23, 2021 9:15:31 GMT
If we go renewable too soon we risk becoming an uncompetitive economy Do you not think renewables are mature technology yet? Not all are mature no, but what I was trying to say and not being terribly eloquent was that lets say the USA can produce a widget at a cost of 1 KWH of electricity as does the UK. But the cost of electricity in the UK is 10P a Unit, in the US its 10 cents and lets say it costs 1 cent to ship to the UK. People will buy the American widget as it's cheaper. Actually a personal example something I wanted recently The item including postage from China was £5, from the UK the same item was £8 plus £5 postage. We need to be more joined up nationally and bring in more sensible recycling schemes. Locally we recycle glass and cardboard in the same bin seems to me to run a risk of the cardboard being contaminated. So my nice new local recycling centre ( AKA tip) has a shop where some items are recycled, in other parts of the country people have been threatened with prosecution for taking stuff out of skips. Don't even get me started on Bin colours, here Green bins are for general waste ie to go to landfill. We all know that glass is pretty much infinity recyclable, yet if I take glass lets say from a broken window to the tip it goes in landfill.
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bernythedolt
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Post by bernythedolt on Jun 23, 2021 9:52:55 GMT
You can afford what you choose to afford. I remember being shocked to discover the monthly HP payments on my first brand new car in 1985 cost exactly the same as a relative was wasting on his cigarette addiction. I will wager there's no shortage of locals wielding an iPhone in one hand and a fag in the other, telling everyone how deprived they are. Berny, being totally honest, and blunt yes these are the same people that I have seen using a local food bank ( I was dropping a donation off ) But yes "tailor made" cigarettes as opposed to "rollups", nice new phone, designer clothes, hair just so and often coloured ( and it was all through lockdowns ) Exactly. Why pay for food when you can get it for free and get your hair and nails done instead...
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